TargetTalk

Posted: **Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:04 am**

Word Up:

Well, here's my tale of woe and what I learned from it. Yeah, I should know better. Yeah, I was stupid. Yeah, you should laugh at me. But don't make the same mistake I did! (Invent new and creative mistakes!)

So I was travelling by air to an important match. It was a direct flight, so I figured I could put in the extra day of work and arrive on the Official Training Day. [MISTAKE 1] The flight was arriving early enough for me to travel to the venue, train, and shoot the match the next day. And hey, there was another flight for later in the day "just in case."

O.K., I arrive at the gate 2 hours prior to flight time. Self-serve check in, unlock my 3 year old trusty Master key-lock [MISTAKE 2] that fit my Pelican case with non-standard dimension lock assembly [MISTAKE 3] and filled out the "steal me" tag and dropped it into the case. With the key. [MISTAKE 4].

So I trot over to the TSA checkpoint and stand by for clearance to proceed. Reaching into my pocket for the key . . . .

O.K., Don't Panic (apologies to Douglas Adams). TSA has master keys that they can use to open locked luggage (see Mistake 2) as long as the lock is one of hte new TSA-Approved locks that the TSA master keys will fit.

So TSA uses the Universal Master Key (the one with the long handles) and recommends that I purchase a lock from one of the ticket agents (whew!). So I go back through the line; cut a few polite people after explaining my situation, and here I am at the counter with the TSA official, my gun case, and ticket agent. "Yes, we have one spare lock left! And it's even TSA approved!" Double-whew!

It doesn't fit my Pelican case (see Mistake 3).

Of course, I am now in the classic "Can't Get There From Here" conundrum. Boarding pass etc. is now cancelled. I can't cross through to all the delightful shops (with locks for sale) because I am not checked through. I can't leave my bags unattended, and neither TSA nor the airline will secure my baggage even if I were to get Special Permission to go through the (long and getting longer) security line.

"Tick Tock"

So I call my wife on the cell phone (ain't technology grand) and she is 10 minutes out from a local retail outlet with a big blue sign that is certain to carry luggage locks. I wait for her to show up with a "Lock Sampler." Of course, I am flying out of DFW, traffic is, well, Texan, and by the time she gets back (p.s. none of the locks was an exact fit [see Mistake 3 again] but with some hasp-bending and fiddling around it will fit) and I trot back up to the ticket counter (Hi Mr. Swartz! Great to see you again!) there is no way I can make my gate.

Oh, that next flight out? Now it's booked. The flight after that? Gets me in w-a-a-a-a-a-ay late.

Lessons Learned (how to avoid the following mistakes):

Mistake 1: Fly in a DAY EARLY just in case
Mistake 2: Make sure your lock has a TSA master key code number on it
Mistake 3: Make sure your case has a standard dimension hasp
Mistake 4: Make sure its a combination lock

and finally

Keep an Eye on Steve!

L8r

Posted: **Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:20 am**

Word....

That was actualy a bit funny. Sad, but funny........

Posted: **Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:00 pm**

Hey Steve-Great story. : -) You the man!!!!.Ernie.

Posted: **Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:13 am**

Well, trust me, it didn't seem funny at the time!

Took me a couple of days before I could see the humor in it . . . hey, anybody out there with non standard locks/cases should re-evaluate.

Steve

[Salt in the Wound: so on what would have been the day of the match, I went ahead and shot a match for training . . . yeah, you know it, everything went disgustingly well . . . ]

Posted: **Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:19 am**

Steve,

That's a good reminder that prior planning prevents poor performance.

I've seen Junior shooters in our club forget just about every piece of gear imaginable, I've seen smallbore rifles brought to air rifle matches, ammo forgotten at home, you name it they've done it. We had one shooter show up at a match with her gun case locked and no key to open it. Luckily for her I live 4 miles from the range and had the same type of case at home. I drove home and got my key, which fit her lock, while she was setting up the rest of her gear.

I preach to them make a check list, keep it in your diary, use it the night before the match to make sure you have everything.

For our local matches that we drive to I always plan to arrive an hour early, and I figure in atleast an extra half hour for traffic or other problems. If we fly out to a match it's at least a day before.

Glad you shot well when it all came together.

Posted: **Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:09 pm**

Steve,
It's been such a long time since I traveled by air with a gun - can you get the 'steal me' tags in advance or only at the check in counter?

I have nonstandard hasp combination locks for my Pelican case. Should be OK? (Unless I get a sudden Alzheimer attack)

Do you put the Pelican case inside a black duffle?

Fred

Posted: **Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:36 pm**

Fred:

Not sure about the tags- it is my understanding though that this needs to be filled out at the counter because it's supposed to involve an "inspection" or "declaration" to the airline at that moment. Actually, I have had to "show clear" only a couple of times . . . usually the ticket counter just wants you to sign the tag and drop it into the case. The TSA inspection is a totally separate requirement.

As to the locks- remember that TSA might need to access your case even when you aren't there! Therefore, it's important for you to have one of the new locks that has the special TSA keyhole and 3-digit key code. Pelican makes a good one; I have a Brinks (both combination locks). TSA may want to open your case at any time after you pass initial inspection in the gate area.

Yep, I had some intersting and in-depth conversations with a variety of TSA and airline supervisors last weekend.

Finally- here's somewhat of a problem- you are absolutely right if you are suggesting that it is beneficial to "disguise" your gun case by putting it inside another piece of luggage or buying a nylon cover etc that will make it look less like a hardshell STEAL ME piece of luggage (either firearms or expensive electronic equipment) and more like a bunch of dirty underwear.

I have ordered a new Pelican that looks like a typical flight crew roller-wheel carryon deal; I am giving some thought to how to disguise this new one. My old one would fit perfectly inside a separate piece of luggage that looked really cheap/beat up.

Note that AmeriCase (sponsor of USAS) has a really neat camoflaged combo gun/other stuff case; for rifles! hoping they will offer a similar "pistol case" in the future.

Steve Swartz

Posted: **Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:45 pm**

As to the locks- remember that TSA might need to access your case even when you aren't there! Therefore, it's important for you to have one of the new locks that has the special TSA keyhole and 3-digit key code. Pelican makes a good one; I have a Brinks (both combination locks). TSA may want to open your case at any time after you pass initial inspection in the gate area.

$#@!&* I am the proud owner of two almost new PeliLocks -NOT the TSA Pelilocks. I guess I had better buy the new model. Thanks for the heads up.
But I have been told that I am a creative person and I am confidant that I will be able to create a brand new problem at a suitable time.

Fred

P.S. Anyone interested in a pair of Pelilocks? Any reasonable offer accepted.

Posted: **Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:21 pm**

49CFR1540.111 regarding transportation of firearms by air specifically states in section (C)(2)(iv) "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination."

Using a TSA lock, which allows any TSA person with a key to open your case would seem to open you up to being a felon.

I'm no lawyer, but this is a hot topic of discussion on other boards, and the consensus is to NOT use TSA locks.

Posted: **Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:42 pm**

TWP wrote: I've seen Junior shooters in our club forget just about every piece of gear imaginable, I've seen smallbore rifles brought to air rifle matches, ammo forgotten at home, you name it they've done it.

Last champs we ran, a very experienced lady AR shooter turned up to the range nice and early to shoot her AR match carrying her nice soft rifle case. She came back about a minute later with a very sheepish grin on her face, she had bought the wrong soft case, the one containing her husbands 12g pump action shotgun !!!

Posted: **Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:15 pm**

Pat:

I understand what you're saying but when the firearm shows up on a scanner and they reach for the bolt-cutters it isn't their problem . . .

Steve Swartz

Posted: **Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:49 pm**

The last time I flew with pistols was just a few months ago. TSA, on both ends, did my inspection while I waited right next to the inspection area. When the inspection was complete I locked the case back up. Two TSA stickers were affixed to the baggage routing tag to prove inspection to anyone down the baggage system. They ran the case through the x-ray while I stood watching. Never did my key leave my hand. I was asked, when departing to return home, by a TSA inspector to give her my key, I refused. I told her to bring my case back over to me and I would unlock it for her. I quoted her the reg listed above regarding custody of the key. She got a superior and questioned my actions, he told her to bring my case back so I could unlock it for her.

I would never use a lock that gave TSA access without my presence. Carry spare keys. Arrive early, extra early when you have to check firearms.

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:18 am**

Pat:

I understand what you're saying but when the firearm shows up on a scanner and they reach for the bolt-cutters it isn't their problem . . .

They will not cu tthe lock. If they need additional inspection the will call your name at the gate and ask for the key. Don't give it to them, but offer to accompany them to open the lock. This is correct procedure, and keeps everyone withn the law (as well as alowing you to know your gun is still in the case - who knows if they replace it if you give them the key).

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:26 am**

Following is the TSA response to my questions about type of lock to use.

Thank you for your email message concerning the checked baggage screening process and how it affects passengers carrying firearms in checked baggage.

The requirements for transporting firearms have not changed. Passengers must declare the firearm with the airline and adhere to airline policies and regulations. In accordance with 49 CFR §1540.111, firearms must be unloaded, packed in a hard-sided, locked case, and inaccessible to passengers during flight. Only the passenger may hold the key to the locked case. You may view this regulation on TSA's website at http://www.tsa.dot.gov by clicking first on Law & Policy, then on Transportation Security Regulations, and scrolling to the information in Section C of that web page.

TSA recommends that passengers leave checked baggage unlocked. This is not a requirement, however, and if your suitcase also serves as your hard-sided, locked gun case, it may not be left unlocked.

Enhanced security measures require that all checked baggage undergo some form of screening. Physical search of the luggage may be required to clear every alarm, and baggage screeners may have to force open locked baggage in order to carry out their duties if they are unable to unlock or otherwise open the baggage. Travelers who lock their checked baggage must do so with the understanding that this may cause delays for themselves and/or their baggage.

However, TSA will NOT force open locked baggage if it knows the baggage contains guns or ammunition. If we have to open your checked bag containing a gun or ammunition, we will make every effort to contact you and have you open the bag for our screeners. If we cannot clear your bag, then your bag will not make your flight.

TSA is not liable for any damage to the locks or luggage that occur in the process of opening a bag for security purposes. However, you may file a claim with TSA for any items allegedly lost or damaged during the inspection.

We hope this information is helpful. In addition, we are sending the following general information about checked baggage screening that may also be useful to you.

The Aviation and Transportation Security Act (ATSA) established the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and mandated deadlines for enhanced security measures. TSA has worked to meet its mandates and at the same time provide an increased level of customer service. As changes and enhancements to aviation security are implemented TSA publicizes Traveler Tips in local and national media, as well as on its website at http://www.TSATravelTips.us, to aid travelers with the enhanced screening processes.

In some airports, the checked baggage screening process is integrated into the airline's baggage handling process. In this case, checked baggage screening is completed outside the view of passengers. In other airports, the checked baggage screening is completed in a public area of the terminal and passengers may be nearby when their baggage is screened. Once the screening process is completed, passengers are not permitted to repack or handle their baggage.

TSA screeners exercise great care during the screening process to ensure that your contents are returned to your bag every time a bag needs to be opened. TSA will assess, on an individual basis, any loss or damage claims made to TSA. You may call the TSA Contact Center toll-free at 1-866-289-9673 to initiate a claim.

TSA's travel tips online provide information about prohibited and permitted items, the screening process and procedures, and guidance for special considerations, which may assist in preparing for air travel. We also encourage you to visit our website at <http://www.tsa.dot.gov> for additional information about TSA. We continue to add new information and encourage you to check the website frequently for updated information.

TSA Contact Center

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:47 pm**

Let's recap:

The applicable regulation referred to prohibits the carriage of any loaded firearm, and

"(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is unloaded;

(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination."

The rub here is Pat's (and the TSA people he spoke to) interpretation of that last sentence, and my interpretation and the interpretation of the TSA people I spoke to, and the interpretation of the Pelican folks, of that last sentence.

Pat's folks said they won't access the case without the passenger being present- which can be downright hard to make happen either at enroute stops or even some airports (where TSA screeing is done in back). Best case scenario: they page you, you meet up with them somewhere, do your business, and re-process you back to your gate.

My TSA folks said hey, they gave us these master keys for just this purpose and, oh by the way, the language about "only the passenger" does not (of course) apply to security personnel. What else are master keys for; every lock is accessible with a master key; etc. etc.

Not sure I buy this either . . . according to the actual words in the reg is sure sounds like you and only you have to have the only keys and/or combinaiton that you can't ever share with anybody and you must have a lock that it is impossible for anyone anywhere to ever have a master key for. This is what it sure seems like it is saying- making the whole situation moot 'cause all locks have standard tumbler patterns that locksmiths could access. Anyhow- I know- it sure seems like any lock that could be accessed by any kind of master key is verboten.

Pelican sells TSA approved guncase locks specifically accessible by TSA master keys.

Also, we have Rob's TSA email reply which stated that

"However, TSA will NOT force open locked baggage if it knows the baggage contains guns or ammunition. If we have to open your checked bag containing a gun or ammunition, we will make every effort to contact you and have you open the bag for our screeners. If we cannot clear your bag, then your bag will not make your flight."

Now they sure as heck forced open my locked case! Here's another point: is using a master key "forcing open" a lock? Not so certain about my interpretation- or various TSA interpretations- or Pat's interpretation- or Pelican's interpretation- at this point.

Anyhow, I'm not sure what "every effort to contact you" means, especially if you have already boarded your connecting flight and a couple of TSA guys are standing around looking at your locked case. If my bag does not make my flight, well, I may as well not show up for the competition either, right?

p.s. I have never had a problem with air cylinders.

p.p.s. I have never had TSA attach any kind of tag on my *firearms* case after checking it- when they have searched my *non-firearms* luggage they have always dropped the little thank you note inside and stuck the holographic tag on my luggage tag. No, wait- one time out of the last 6 I got the little holograph tag on my firearms luggage.

Maybe TSA at DFW is just sloppy or careless?

Steve Swartz

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:49 pm**

In traveling out of Denver and Salt Lake five of the last six years with multiple gun cases and airrifles (to 3P Air JORC) we have had no problems with cylinders, and only once with having to reopen a case.

For some reason I was called to the gate desk and asked for the key to the rifle case. When advising them of the Regulation (took a copy along) they escorted me to the ramp where I opened the case, then closed and relocked it after they noted the inspection card which had been inserted by the original TSA inspector.

Until the regulation wording is changed to state only the passenger OR TSA agent may hold the combination or lock I will continue to do as in the past. As for having a master key, I suspect the TSA does not (or they would not push the TSA Qualified locks).

We use pelican double rifle cases, and usually have two or three when we travel. One problem we did have was when a 17 year old shooter tried to declare the air rifle. Desk clerk would not allow that, and his dad would up with the case unde his ticket.

I have also traveled with a .45 in a small Pelican pistol case (locked and declared) inside my suitcase. They put TSA inspection tape around the suitcase.

TargetTalk

Lesson(s) Learned: Don't Be An Idiot (Like Me!)

Lesson(s) Learned: Don't Be An Idiot (Like Me!)

Lessons Learned.

Some Travel Questions

RE: TSA locks