TargetTalk

What is the best way to set these iron sights?Whats the corect way to use them?Ron

Adjust the elevation and windage of the rear sight so that when the front sight is in sharp focus, and the slightly out-of-focus rear notch is perfectly aligned (equal light space on either side; tops level horizontally) with the front sight . . . and this aligned sight combination is pointed at your aiming area, using the center top of the front sight . . . your shots will hit at the desired location.

?????

Steve Swartz

Earlier I was not using glasses and I guess watching the target. I am now using my glasses and watching my front sight.I started hitting the freakin' thing!I got old eyes and can't see the target clear when watching the front sight.Is this normal I know I could do better if I see the target better.Hey! This gun does work! Any thoughts?Thanks Ron

Ron:

"These old eyes notwithstanding" (you'll find a lot of, shall we say, "experience" in this group!) I think you really need to be more concerned about keeping the front sight in sharp focus than "seeing" the target.

I know it's counter-intuitive; or just plain "squirrely;" but the basic idea is that a very small amount of deviation in your sight alignment causes a huge error downrange, while a fairly scary looking deviation from your "point" (area, actually) of aim is relatively negligable.

You should spend a lot of time shooting at a blank target. Flip your target around and shoot at the back side. The deal is to:

1) focus "like a laser beam" on that durned front sight; and
2) keep the sights perfectly aligned; while
3) wobbling around somewhere in the general vicinity of the target AREA; then
4) not screw it up by slapping at the trigger.

That oughta work pretty well for you . . . just my $0.02

Steve Swartz

p.s. if you can see the target clearly at any point YOU ARE SCREWING THE WHOLE THING UP!!!!

Shooting at a target that looks blurry is driving me nuts.I'm shooting at 15 pool balls on the target and all you see is a blur of each color.Maybe I should shoot a 10 meter target.With a 10 meter target you must just aim to hit the black bull section and hope for the best watching that front sight.Does his sound about right?Maybe I should take my left lense out of my glasses.Maybe not! Ron

Try blocking your left eye by putting some tape on your lens. Then, try using a sub-six hold. That means holding in the white about 1-2 rings below the black. You will have to adjust your sights accordingly to get the shots to the center of the bull. Visualize a box the height and width of the 9 ring below the black. Concentrate on your sights and hold in that zone. It takes the fuzzy bull out of play to some extent.
Al

darticus wrote:Shooting at a target that looks blurry is driving me nuts.I'm shooting at 15 pool balls on the target and all you see is a blur of each color. Ron

Ron, are you shooting at a target with multiple bulleyes? That would certainly give me a headache! Stick with the 10 meter AP target, also called the B40. A single bull on a 6x6 sheet of paper.

If you are over 40 and having a lot of trouble keeping the front sight in focus, you may want to go to your optometrist and be fitted with a lens made to focus at the distance of your front sight - about 36".

Lots of dry firing at a blank sheet of paper will help.

Fred

I'm gonna go to the 10 meter target but no tape on my left lens of my glasses and no monacle.You guys are gonna have the police take me away in this getup.I can see the sight fine with the glasses.I promise I won't shoot multiple targets any more, just let me look normal.Will start practice at first light! Thanks Guys

Look NORMAL? If you did not have one eye covered and were not using a monacle, and did not have your grips all puttied up, you would certainly NOT look normal in amongst the international pistol crowd. :-) Just tell the cops that you run with a very elite crowd.

Now that what I'm talkin' about.Ron

Hey Steve thanks
Can I get more info about shooting a blank target?Don't really know if I'm shooting at a blank target, what do I aim at? Don't tell me nothing! What am I trying to hit? Don't say nothing! To shoot groups ,shooting at a blank target and shooting at nothing and hitting nothing means I'm doing nothing. This sounds like Abbott and Costello.
More info needed nothing helps! Thanks Ron

darticus wrote:To shoot groups ,shooting at a blank target and shooting at nothing and hitting nothing means I'm doing nothing. This sounds like Abbott and Costello.

Don't knock it until you've tried it.

Shooting at a blank target allows you to concentrate on the sight relationship and trigger release without worrying about hitting the middle of the target. Guess what the most important aspects of pistol shooting are, sight relationship and trigger release.

OK,I put out a target, back facing me and tried to hit the center of the paper.Would send pic but can only email pic, I guess.When concentrating on the front sight its hard to see where the center of paper is. Looking at sight not allowing me to see the target clear.Ron

darticus wrote:OK,I put out a target, back facing me and tried to hit the center of the paper

Wrong, don't try to hit the center of the paper. Try to get a good, smooth trigger release while keeping the sights in perfect relationship to each other.

darticus wrote:Looking at sight not allowing me to see the target clear.

Good, now you're getting somewhere. Why do you want to see a clear target. Remember that the center of a blurred target is in the same place as the center of a clear target. Aiming in the white below a blurred target is easier than aiming in the white below a clear target. It lets you avoid the "shoot (snatch) now" syndrome.

I'm having trouble understanding what I'm trying to do.I know this is an exercise in sight viewing but confused on what I'm trying to hit. Read an article on doing this and shooting groups of 3-5 shots, but how can I shoot 3-5 shots at an area I can't really see?The article said to avoid pellet holes previously shot, which I thought would be a good place to shoot at.Concept must be the big problem.Eventually I'll catch on.Ron

darticus wrote:The article said to avoid pellet holes previously shot, which I thought would be a good place to shoot at.

I don't agree with that article.

To avoid previous holes would mean looking at the target. You should be looking at the sights with the card, fuzzy, in the background.

Even if you could see the previous holes, trying to aim at them would defeat the object of the excercise.

If you are having trouble accepting the concept of shooting on the back of an air pistol target then start using the back of a 25m target (with an appropriate pellet stop) and move down to the air pistol sized card once you are used to the concept.

You are not trying to shoot a group. You should be trying to release shots with aligned sights and a good trigger release. Within reason these are FAR more important than holding the gun in exactly the right place (which you will not be able to do anyway).

I was surprised no one else seemed to interpret it this way but I thought the question asked what the sight picture ought to look like.

Generally speaking, there are two strategies, 6 o'clock hold and center hold. Of the two, 6 o'clock is by far the more popular, especially among precision shooters.

Six o'clock hold means you want the sight picture to be one where the bottom edge of black (i.e., the 6 o'clock position) just barely touches the top of the front sight. (In NRA classes, they'll sometimes call that "pumpkin on a fence," which I suppose they think is really cute.) The idea behind 6 o'clock hold is that it's a lot easier to tell if the black is just touching the front sight than it is to tell if you're centered over the black.

As others have pointed out, you should try to eye focused on the front sight, not the target. Both the rear sight and the black on the target should be out of focus -- just always the same "out of focus." As long as you have the same sight picture, meaning the black presents the same fuzzy picture sitting atop the crisp front post, you'll always get the same result.

Lots of new shooters wonder how possibly be true, but it really is. Really impressive demonstrations of this can be seen in high power rifle matches shot with iron sights at 100 yards or more. At 100 yards, the black is 6" across on the target but looks like a tiny, fuzzy pinpoint from the firing line. But still, assuming a match-quality gun, if you start with the same fuzzy sight image every time, the shots can end up close enough together to cover them all with a quarter. At 100 yards, you can't even see a friggin' quarter except with a scope, so how's this possible? It just is. It's all about repeatability. If you do the same thing every time, so will the gun. :)

Btw, if you wear glasses and your present prescription makes it difficult to focus on the front sight, it's probably worth getting another prescription just for shooting. Take your gun with you to the eye exam so they can measure exactly what the distance should be for best focus. (You probably should let them know ahead of time that you want to do this, just so they don't think you've gone postal. :)

Nicole:

You left out the "sub six" hold- the advantage of which is you don't have the negative effect and distraction of trying to point the aligned sights at anything in particular.

Six hold- as you accurately described- is worse than either center or sub six in that you are distracted by having a precise "point" to "aim at."

On top of that, in order to shoot six hold- your eye (either physical focus or mental focus) will invariably shift to the bottom edge of the target, messing the whole thing up).

Center hold or sub-six hold provide the greatest advantage if you are using the precise align/accept settle/subconscious release shot process.

I'm not sure the six o'clock hold is " . . . by far the most popular . . . " if you were to look at say the top ten percent of national & international level competitors anymore. Maybe "slightly more popular" or "decreasing in popularity" at this time.

Steve Swartz

How much do you have to sand the grips of the IZH 46 M to fit the dreaded ISSF box test?
And even my hands are a bit small for it and while I long to use some sand paper or a dremel type of tool, I am scared of mucking it up.

Any suggestions?

Ironfist.

It is impossible to mess up the grips on this gun. They are so large (intentionally) that virtually everyone needs to get a rasp (or your Dremel) and take some off. If you take off too much, get some wood putty (I like the wood filler -- it is hard enough and easy to shape) and build up any area where you took off too much.

I recommend a cheese-grater type of wood rasp -- does a fast job but smoother than the file type of rasp.

To make your grip look good, go to your local hardware store and buy some Minwax (or similar) stain and penetrating finish. Stain the wood so it all is the same color then use the penetrating finish to seal the surface. (I just use the stain and kind of like the sticky feel of my grip. If you don't want "sticky" or smudged hands, follow up with the finish.)

Best,

Joe