TargetTalk

A friend is looking for a source for reduced size air pistol targets. I have seen some 7.5 meter reduced targets but he is sure he has heard about 5 meter versions. Any info or sources would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Joe G.

You can print reduced targets using the free Scatt Software.

This is fine if you just want a few for use, for example, with a Scatt system. If you want quantities of them for actual live firing then it probably won't be suitable.

The requirements for reduced targets for electronic trainers are different to those for live firing. For the former you just need a black directly proportional to the reduced distance. For the latter you need to allow for the fact that the pellet size will not be reduced which will affect the scoring ring size (but the black will still need to be proportional).

In addition, remember that because of the differences between angular and parallel errors you cannot expect reduced distance scores to be the same as for the correct distance.

Take a look at the links off of this page:http://www.triffid.clara.co.uk/PelletTrap.html

Ian Pellant's software can print out the targets & the process of scaling targets to the correct size is not that hard.

I went over to Office Depot with a full scale target and asked them to print it at half scale on card stock.

For scoring, I "score down" (taking the lower score when a pellet hits a ring).

Good enough for practice at my mediocre skill level

Andy wrote:Ian Pellant's software can print out the targets & the process of scaling targets to the correct size is not that hard.

I don't know the software. Does it allow you to print part of a scoring ring area in black and the other part in white.

To properly reduce a 10m target to 5m for example the black aiming mark diameter is reduced to 50%. Because of the diameter of the pellet however, and the fact that you are inward scoring, the scoring ring diameters have to be reduced by more than 50%. For an Air Pistol target, when the full size black includes the 7 ring, the reduced black would also need to include part of the 6 ring.

If the software handles that then I would be impressed.

www.pistoleer.com has lots of official and unofficial targets at decent prices. The only 5 meter targets they list are for BB rifle.

I haven't found anything cheaper than their prices on B-40, B-38 and B-35, either.

JoeG wrote:A friend is looking for a source for reduced size air pistol targets. I have seen some 7.5 meter reduced targets but he is sure he has heard about 5 meter versions. Any info or sources would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Joe G.

Depends on the intended application of the target...

The ISSF Air Rifle target 'black' is near as all get up half the diameter of the black on an ISSF Air Pistol target (within 1 mm).

If all you are after for training is the group size (and as a coach I could rattle on for ages on the problems with worrying about scoring ANY target you shoot away from the range), the AR target will fill your needs.

Spencer C

I will pass them along to my buddy. He is basically looking to do some informal practice at home and his linear distance is quite limited. I agree that he should mainly be shooting for group and get his practice in. Best regards, Joe G.

David Levene wrote:

Andy wrote:Ian Pellant's software can print out the targets & the process of scaling targets to the correct size is not that hard.

I don't know the software. Does it allow you to print part of a scoring ring area in black and the other part in white.

I can tell that you didn't visit the web site :)

The software can be got at: http://home.hiwaay.net/~ispellan/Airguns.html

It can print out pretty much any colour you like, although I'm not sure that you can change the ring numbering to reflect half rings/duplicate score rings.

That said, visit the web site I mentioned & follow the link to the "how to scale down a target" section(http://www.triffid.clara.co.uk/ScaleAirgunTarget.html), then you won't need half rings :)

Andy wrote:That said, visit the web site I mentioned & follow the link to the "how to scale down a target" section(http://www.triffid.clara.co.uk/ScaleAirgunTarget.html), then you won't need half rings :)

Well that page correctly allows for the pellet size when calculating the scoring rings. What it doesn't do is mention that the pellet size has nothing to do with scaling the size of the black aiming mark and that the pellet has no part in that calculation. The black size is directly proportional to the actual target distance.

You therefore have the case for an air pistol target where the reduced size of the 7 ring is smaller than the correct reduced size of the black aiming mark. For shooting at 5m the 7 ring needs a diameter of 27.5mm but the black needs a diameter of 29.75mm. You therefore need part of the 6 ring to be black.

The alternative is to accept inaccuracy but that seems to defeat the object of target shooting.

I would imagine for a number of reasons, removing scoring rings altogether would make sense in this training environment (?) It would allow for training on the scaled 'correct' size of black whilst at the same time removing the scoring element (distraction) of training and thereby be a more useful training tool. You can still get information about group size and location.

Rob.

AP target for 6m.

http://www.targettalk.org/images/Attach ... Target.pdf

Shin wrote:AP target for 6m.

http://www.targettalk.org/images/Attach ... Target.pdf

I haven't checked the dimensions but have no reason to doubt their accuracy. The theory certainly looks right.

David Levene wrote: I haven't checked the dimensions but have no reason to doubt their accuracy. The theory certainly looks right.

Thanks, David
Here is the dimensions:
for 6m: from X to 1, outer line included.
1.2 - 5.1 - 14.7 - 24.3 - 33.9 - 43.5 - 53.1 - 62.7 - 72.3 - 81.9 - 91.5mm
Bull - 35.7mm

for 5m:
0.25 - 3.5 - 11.5 - 19.5 - 27.5 - 35.5 - 43.5 - 51.5 - 59.5 - 67.5 - 75.5mm
Bull - 29.75mm

5m target
http://www.targettalk.org/images/Attach ... Target.pdf

Paper size set to ~169x169 mm. Print them on the back of Edelman 10m AP target.

David Levene wrote: Well that page correctly allows for the pellet size when calculating the scoring rings. What it doesn't do is mention that the pellet size has nothing to do with scaling the size of the black aiming mark. The black size is directly proportional to the actual target distance.

You therefore have the case for an air pistol target where the reduced size of the 7 ring is smaller than the correct reduced size of the black aiming mark. For shooting at 5m the 7 ring needs a diameter of 27.5mm but the black needs a diameter of 29.75mm. You therefore need part of the 6 ring to be black.

The alternative is to accept inaccuracy but that seems to defeat the object of target shooting.

Good point, although I've been happy to accept a 2mm error in the aiming mark in favour of the correct scaling of the scoring zones. That said I often cut out the black area & shoot into it for groups in the putty rather than for scoring.

The airgun software would allow you to make the 6 ring 1mm wide & black, with the "5" ring taking the rest of the 6 ring diameter in white, but you'd have to accept that the 1 ring would disappear & that the scoring numbers (if you choose to print them) would be wrong.

The advantage of the software approach is that if, like me, you can get 5.5m but no further then you can scale the target to your range length, rather than a fixed 5 or 6m. This is proably a more relevant argument for people with 7 or 8m ranges, where there are no readily available targets already.

As has already been demonstrated there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Spencer C wrote: Depends on the intended application of the target...

The ISSF Air Rifle target 'black' is near as all get up half the diameter of the black on an ISSF Air Pistol target (within 1 mm).

If all you are after for training is the group size (and as a coach I could rattle on for ages on the problems with worrying about scoring ANY target you shoot away from the range), the AR target will fill your needs.

Spencer C

Spencer,

Thank you for pointing out that the 10mm Air Rifle target has a suitable aiming black for use at 5M.

I spend 90%+ of my time in practice shooting at blackened out bulls, 9-ring only, 10-ring only targets ... seems like the Air Rifle target is a good choice at 5M (most permissible in my garage without going diagonal). I really would like to start shooting in my garage as opposed to having to drive to the club.

Perhaps I can print out some kind of 9 & 10-ring overlay template on clear plastic to simulate the training targets I use at 10M. Or I guess I could just use the existing 9 & 8 rings of the Air Rifle target (they are within 2mm & 1mm respectively) of the proper reduced 10 & 9 rings for Air Pistol.

Thanks again!

Victor

Joe, for training puposes I think what is important is that the black is represented at 5 meters through your sights as it would be at 10 meters. This means to me that when I look at the target at my reduced range of 7 meters the black portion of the traget is the width of my front sight blade. This gives me a good spot to lay the top of my front sight on the 6 O'clock position of the bull and shoot for groups. When I get to a match I use my sighters to confirm that my groups are hitting the 10 ring (hopefully). If you are shooting the resident postal match I am sure that some one can point you to the appropriate target for that. Good luck

Victor,

Have you measured the diagonal of your garage? If your garage layout allows, you may be able to set up close to 10 meters. A 24' x 24' garage will get you close to 30'. The diagonal on a 24 square building is 33.9 feet on the outside corners. (This all depends on the width of your stance. A bigger garage is even better. Just don't shoot your wife's hood ornament?

Ray

Ray Odle wrote:Victor,

Have you measured the diagonal of your garage? If your garage layout allows, you may be able to set up close to 10 meters. A 24' x 24' garage will get you close to 30'. The diagonal on a 24 square building is 33.9 feet on the outside corners. (This all depends on the width of your stance. A bigger garage is even better. Just don't shoot your wife's hood ornament?

Ray

Ray,

Thanks, but unfortunately my garage is a rather small two-car affair (not to the mention the overgrown Jeep that resides in it) ... it is only 27' on the diagonal ... my 5 meter setup is very simple and quick to put up / take down and poses no danger to my Jeep.

I just purchased 1000 air rifle targets to try it out ... so far so good. I also like purchasing off the shelf targets as they perform much better than my attempts to make targets.

Regards,

Victor

These are excellent points regarding the different scale between the black ring/area and the scoring rings for shooting at shorter distances.

I’d also like to raise an additional consideration (if it hasn’t already been covered) regarding the target height. It seems target height (in most cases) also needs to be adjusted to maintain the same front-sight height from the ground as when the target is at 10 meters.