TargetTalk

Hi there,

I was thinking that, maybe, using subsonic ammo in my Pardini SP 22lr I would reduce muzzle jump in the rapid series. But before wasting my money I would be glad to know whether subsonic ammo would work in this gun without jams (feeding failures).

What exactly do you mean by "subsonic ammo for the 22?"

IIRC, isn't most target-grade ammo for .22 LR subsonic already? The Ely target stuff is all pretty much below 1000 fps, right? The Federal Gold advertises 1050 fps (still subsonic).

Do you mean the low-impulse ("squib") ammo like the colibri 300 fps stuff?

Steve Swartz

It worked o.k. in mine, but you should buy box or two and test it in your's.

The Colibri stuff that basically only has priming compound will never work in any semi-auto. Other reduced velocity stuff can probably be made to work my moving to a lower weight (strength) recoil spring.

However, IIRC, there is a minimum velocity requirement for Rapidfire with velocity floor that would pretty much mandate using at least standard velocity ammo, so I don't see what you're trying to accomplish.

My Pardini has no problem RWS Subsonic. Try it yourself, but I can think of no reason to use it instead of their Target Rifle - the difference in recoil impulse is negligible.

Moi - take some time and do a search on this discussion forum. You'll find lots of comments on subsonic performance, including (heaven forbid) some of mine.

FWIW, I've found subsonic ammo to be a total waste of time in terms of accuracy. Admittedly I haven't tried the RWS subsonic, but have tried Eley, CCI, Aguila, and Remington, all with disappointing results. Although we'd all like a mild ammo for shooting the RF stage of any match, I think the low-recoil benefit obtained by shooting subsonic stuff would be swamped out by its relative lack of accuracy.

My old walther gsp shoots the subsonic aguila very well. You won't know how your pardini will shoot unless you try a variety of ammo and choose accordingly. Try a variety, find something that functions well, shoots decent groups, by a case or three and practise, practise, practise. Happy days!

Moi wrote:Hi there,

I was thinking that, maybe, using subsonic ammo in my Pardini SP 22lr I would reduce muzzle jump in the rapid series. But before wasting my money I would be glad to know whether subsonic ammo would work in this gun without jams (feeding failures).

Don't forget the 250mps velocity required for RFP. Most of the 'usual' ammo we have fired through a Pardini passed OK, lighter loads might be a problem (CCI Standard gave a lowest of 270mps - results WILL vary from pistol to pistol is the same make/model, and batches of ammunition).

Looking at the RFP results from World Cups so far, a number of shooters have DSQ for ammunition testing.

Regards,
Spencer C

I must come from an other planet.

Who would shoot supersonic .22lr ammo from a target pistol?

All the major ammunition companies make their match grade .22lr ammo subsonic.

j-team wrote:I must come from an other planet.

Who would shoot supersonic .22lr ammo from a target pistol?

All the major ammunition companies make their match grade .22lr ammo subsonic.

I think I'm on the same planet as you j-team
Wave your hand and I might see you

j-team wrote:I must come from an other planet.

Who would shoot supersonic .22lr ammo from a target pistol?

All the major ammunition companies make their match grade .22lr ammo subsonic.

But +mach1 for what barrel length? A lot of nominally +mach1 ammo out of a 15" or 18" barrel will be subsonic out of a pistol.

S

This is, of course, quibbling; but here goes any-who.

Apparently, calling your ammo "SubSonic" is some kind of new marketing fad. Are some target ammo makers really advertising that being "SubSonic" is really something special? Heck, I'm shooting the same ammo I bought several years ago, so it's not like I'm keeping up with latest/greates trends.

I'm sure the ammo specifically labeled "SubSonic" is no more or less subsonic than any target ammo- with the exception of reduced load rounds like the Colibri. There might be some reduced velocity loads, sure; but the key is not that they are "SubSonic" compared to others.

As mentioned about 12 posts up . . . it's all subsonic.

My CRC manual puts speed of sound at 0 C and 29.92" Hg at around 1100 fps. Even the "Hot" target ammo clocks in below that.

Target ammo, for accuracy and stability purposes, needs to be either 100% supersonic, or 100% subsonic, over it's entire flight.

Unless you are buying "Remington Thunderbolt" or some other jazzed up hunting/plinking load (for a match pistol?!?) your target ammo is all pretty much subsonic.

Especially so in a RF pistol.

Whether the marketing geniuses at the manufacturer advertise it as such or not.

Steve Swartz

I was clued into SK Jagd Subsonic by target rifle shooters, who swore by it. To give Eley, SK, etc., the benefit of the doubt, is it possible that they are actually referring to rifle-length barrels when they differentiate ammo as "subsonic?"

Interesting thread. How do you rate Aguila Subsonic and SV? There is a definite felt recoil difference between the two. I would say it is more than marketing although pricing is almost the same.
-Steve

I tried several ammos in my wife's Pardini SP, and on the advice of one of the state's top shooters, I tried Aguila subsonic. It cycles the pistol just fine, is very accurate, and is very reasonably priced. I bought a case, and I don't think she's ever had a single dud.

Don't get too hung up on the "sub-sonic" velocity thing. The vast majority of .22 ammo is designed for & tested in rifles, and the ballistics out of a pistol will be very different. I've tried ammo with the same published muzzle velocity, and they can have VERY different perceived recoil from a standard pistol.

I think everyone missed the point of the original poster. I don't really think the original poster could care less about the nomenclature "subsonic" or not. The thought of the poster was if this weaker ammo would still feed his gun, and "presumably", was thinking that "gee, if I could use a slower/weaker ammo in RF, and still meet the 250 m/s rule, then wouldn't that be a good idea? Now, by my calculator, 250 m/s is about 820 FPS. My Federal Premium 711B ammo in my Walther GSP runs about 950 FPS. I also wonder if this ammo referred to as "subsonic" would be closer to about 900 fps, for the advantage of a little less muzzle flip. Again, I think this could be an issue in the 4 second series of rapid fire pistol. Apparently a few of the RFP shooters at the world cup also thought so, as they obviously cut it too close and got caught.

Jeff

Is it possible that its marketing hype from and for the Tactical comunity . People who play with supressors want subsonic ammo , they also want a nasty , heavy projectile like some of the hunting rounds . IIRC Eley makes one such round that is alledgedly popular with high speed low drag types . Why dont they use standard target ammo and save the tax payer a bundle .I recall seeing some FMJ 22Lr. issued in the US military during the 1970's . It's nice to keep your covert operations per. the Geneva convention !

Chris