single stroke pneumatic pistols

[vnbrnkhrst]

Hello all,

I'm new to air pistol shooting and have an FWB LP 65 as a starter.
Preferring to be independent of an air source, I ponder the purchase of a single stroke cocker match pistol.
I have identified 4 possible types: The Baikal IZH -46, the Walther LPM (no longer produced), the Pardini K 58 and the FWB 100, 102 and 103 line.

Could you help me with sources where I can find (comparative) tests or reviews of these or else tell me your experience with any of these, please ?
Thanks very much in advance for any help,

Cassidy

[Bill177]

I had a K58 for a short period of time. I did not care for it at all. It was heavier to cock than the IZH-46M and was quite nose heavy. It shot very accurately, however (which you would expect from any quality airgun). The trigger was excellent, being the same as the K60 and K90 APs.

I also found the IZH to be nose heavy, yet accurate. Its trigger was excellent. The grips required a lot of work, which was worth the effort.

For the money, you are going to be very hard pressed to do better than the IZH-46M. Try to find a used one - they last forever when properly cared for.

I now shoot a Pardini K2 (Co2 model) and like it very much. No more tiring cocking - which, after 50 or 60 shots does effect my scores and desire to continue shooting for the session.

Check http://www.airguninfo.com for other sources of airgun information.

[Guest]

> ...had a K58 .. was heavier to cock than the
> IZH-46M and was quite nose heavy....I also
> found the IZH to be nose heavy

As designed. The leverage is beneficial in holding a steady sight picture.

> No more tiring cocking - which, after 50 or 60
> shots does effect my scores and desire to
> continue shooting for the session.

If you shoot a pneumatic seriously, you quickly get beyond the fitness issue. This also applies to your complaint about balance.

[Goatbang]

I have a FWB100 & find it excellent. I find the cocking effort minimal even after 70 shots or so, YMMV. I have never had any problems with it ( I think I got it in 1994 or so ).

Faults ? A bit nose heavy. The trigger is not the absolute best, but it is still very good.

I would recommend that you actually try out a few of these pistols rather than buy unseen or on our say-so.

[zoned]

> > ...had a K58 .. was quite nose heavy

When I first got a K58 it felt heavy, so I removed the sliding weight. After shooting it for a while I put the weight back on, positioned about 2/3 toward the front sight. This calmed sight movement considerably.

The physical motion of charging a pneumatic does generate blood flow, and I suppose it could interfere with your composure. For me, the cycle burns nervous energy and is relaxing, and I'm soon not even aware of any effort. When I shoot FP there is no such work, so I have to do more concentrated deep breathing to generate blood flow and release tension.

[eugenegazda]

I have a K58. Sometimes I use the sliding weight to improve the balance and steady the muzzle, and sometimes I don't use it. Right now I'm not. It's very nice to have though.
I too found cocking the K58 using my arms and chest muscles to be a bit of a chore in a 60 shot match, especially now that the memory of my 65th birthday is getting a bit fuzzy.
What I do is open the cocking lever, place the muzzle on the shooting bench, and use the weight of my body to slowly close the cocking lever. It works like a champ and I never even have to change my grip.
The trigger on my K58 is superb, and the gun is well built.
If I ever do get a PCP pistol it is likely to be a K2s, but I need to try one out again to decide if it will improve my scores.
But then what the hey, it's toy time.
So there's my 2 cents worth.
Gene

[eugenegazda]

There. Now that I've spouted off for a bit, and forgot to address the question.... Buy the IZH. It's an excellent pistol and I see lots of them on the firing line. If you like it, great, stay with it until you feel you need something better and have an chance to try out the more expensive guns.
They you can sell the IZH on this forum and get back most of what you paid for it.
But buy the IZH from Pilkingtons if you are in the USA. Their price is as good as you'll do for a new gun and they are fair and honest to deal with. I make that comment based on personal experience.

[Guest]

When you decide to personally attack a fellow poster you should identify yourself - the original poster did. Without knowing who you are, your post lacks all validity except for the venom factor. I amde this post "guest" so you would learn what I mean - by example.

[David Levene]

When you decide to personally attack a fellow poster you should identify yourself - the original poster did. Without knowing who you are, your post lacks all validity except for the venom factor. I amde this post "guest" so you would learn what I mean - by example.

The "Guest above" was not me (I have never posted as a guest) but cannot see any comments on this thread that I would class as a personal attack. I would respectfully suggest that either you mis-read a posting or that you may be being a little over-sensitive.

[RobStubbs]

Hello all,

I'm new to air pistol shooting and have an FWB LP 65 as a starter.
Preferring to be independent of an air source, I ponder the purchase of a single stroke cocker match pistol.

I would first off enquire as to your reasonings for wanting to be "independant from an air source" ? I have both a dive cylinder and a pump, the latter I only use if I'm shooting a lot and away from home. You will get 150 - 200 shots per cylinder and most guns come with a spare - so that gives you up to 400 shots without need to refill. All the top end guns are now compressed air (or arguably CO2) so by ruling them out you restrict yourself as to choices. I don't doubt there are some pretty good guns about that fit your stated requirements but if you keep your options open you have a much greater range.

Rob.

[rogerv]

I started with a FWB 65 and worked my way up to a personal best of 576 with it. You don't need anything else.

But, if you prefer trying a SSP, I like the Pardini K58. It's accurate and has an excellent trigger. I use one myself now because I don't like bothering with the expense and hassle of the tanks.

As far as being muzzle heavy...I added 30 grams of moto tire weights to the front end to increase the "hang".

As for being tiring..if you can cock the FWB 65 with no trouble, you'll have no trouble with the Pardini. I have seen people who could hardly cock either one, though.

[WSmith]

Over the years, I've been the owner of quite a few single stroke pneumatic (SSP) air pistols - Pardini K10, Walther LP3 (2X), FAS 604, FAS 606, FWB 102 - as well as a spring powered FWB Model 65 II.

An interesting aspect of airguns that are independent of an air source - CO2 and/or SCUBA - is the methodical, slower pace of shooting. The process of charging the gun has the effect of slowing down the shooting cycle, and often helps the shooter fall into a very methodical, often "trance-like" pace. During my competitive years, both during training and matches, I often found myself gradually shooting faster-and-faster - not intentionally, but it just seemed to happen. It was/is so easy with a
precharged pistol to "quickly shoot again." (I'm sure many of us have seen a shooter finish their course of fire in way under the allotted time. It's also similiar to a Standard Pistol shooter firing their timed series (20 seconds) in a blaze of rapid fire. Slow down.)

Most modern SSP air pistols are really not that strenuous to charge, and the FWB Model 102 actually had two levers to spread the effort out.

Although the 102 is no longer in production, the current FWB Model 103's charging handle is detachable after charging thereby substantially reducing the typical "front heavy" nature of some SSP's.

Like many pursuits, you really "have-to-try-it" to know if it's for you ...

[vnbrnkhrst]

Thanks very much to all for sharing your info and views.
I tend to agree with the view that going through a few more motions could help to get into a cycle of more concentration, once having a fixed "ritual".
This is an additional pro of not being "bottlebound".

Cheers,

Hendrick

[Guest]

I have tried a Walther LPM1 the other week since the compressor of our club is broken and i am stuck with my Hammerli 480K2 :(

I got used to the effort very quickly (and actually like the trigger a lot more than the one on the Hammerli0. The Process of charging the pistol leads to a lot less thoughtless warmup-shots, and helps getting into a meditative state of mind. One big disadvantage i can see though is that i was not able to charge the pistol in a way according to international safety rules. In the process of compression, i had to do that in front of my boda, and since i am right handed and i am not willing to give up my stance every shot, the pistol points 45 degree upward/backwards during that process. Noone complained but i am pretty sure i would not get away with it during competitoin. Then again i can not realistically see myself charge this gun with it constantly pointing towards the target....ideas?
Dan

[vnbrnkhrst]

Dan,

Assuming you are righthanded, would it be possible to close the charging handle putting the pistol grip or your wrist on your right hip (with barrel pointing downwards), so that you do not have to turn away from the target and are not too much sideways to interfere with fellow shooters ? However, doing this might bring you too far back from the shooting "table", unless there are separation walls on each line, with sufficient depth....

Cassidy (Hendrick).

[RobStubbs]

An interesting aspect of airguns that are independent of an air source - CO2 and/or SCUBA - is the methodical, slower pace of shooting. The process of charging the gun has the effect of slowing down the shooting cycle, and often helps the shooter fall into a very methodical, often "trance-like" pace. During my competitive years, both during training and matches, I often found myself gradually shooting faster-and-faster - not intentionally, but it just seemed to happen. It was/is so easy with a precharged pistol to "quickly shoot again." (I'm sure many of us have seen a shooter finish their course of fire in way under the allotted time. It's also similiar to a Standard Pistol shooter firing their timed series (20 seconds) in a blaze of rapid fire. Slow down.)

Like many pursuits, you really "have-to-try-it" to know if it's for you ...

With respect I don't see any link between speed of shooting and pre charged v manual. The trance like cycle you refer to is almost identical to the sequence of events with a precharged - the only difference is the process of 'charging' the gun requires almost no physical effort. You may well have problems speeding up but when I'm on the firing line, watching other shooters the first to finish are the manual gun shooters although I don't think it's anything to do with the gun in their hand.

I'm not saying some of the manual guns aren't good but they will never be better than pre charged guns. Sure don't ignore them but also don't ignore the high quality pre charged guns. Like the final sentance above, try it and see.

Rob.