TargetTalk

Where does one find the description of how to train for and shoot the men's rapid fire pistol event?

Warren has a good, short description in the Hitchers giude. I think I have most of the better books on pistol technique, but most are not from the past decade or two.

I think there is an article on the http://www.targetshooting.ca website (under training). There are odd articles in some of the pistol shooting books but nothing in much detail. I've tended to pick it up by a combination of reading books and articles, watching shooters and trial and error.

Rob.

Pete,

Try http://www.pilkguns.com/c11.htm

I am working on the theory of bedding in the technique in 8 and 6 seconds and once the technique has been established it is just a matter of speeding it up for 4 seconds.

Be careful not to shoot the 8 seconds series in 8 seconds if you don't need the time, in training do it in the speed that is natural and enables you to do the good technique.

The other thing to concentrate on is getting the first shot away quickly and accurately, this will give you the time you may need on the fifth target.

Go for proper technique in the early stages on the basis that some speed will come naturally as you bed in the technique.

Mikey

I was once told by a national RF champion that the only difference between the 8 & 6 second series was the amount of precision they allowed in sighting on the first target. As he said, there's absolutely no excuse for shooting anything other than a 10 on the first target in these two series, even as a rank amatuer.

Mark Briggs wrote:I was once told by a national RF champion that the only difference between the 8 & 6 second series was the amount of precision they allowed in sighting on the first target. As he said, there's absolutely no excuse for shooting anything other than a 10 on the first target in these two series, even as a rank amatuer.

I agree on the first part but not the second. My 8 sec string starts with approximately 2.5 secs on the first target, on the 6 sec string it's more like 1.6 - 1.8. On the 4 sec string it drops to about 1 sec. I don't have the technique fully sorted as I'm quite new (and only allowed air guns here in the UK). I find it very easy to hit the 10 practicing the first shot of the series in 8 and 6 but put them all together and the first card is often my worst. I know it's almost certainly my technique and something I need to work on but my point is shoot a series and new shooters will find it can be much more difficult than the individual elements / targets.

All that said I would love to see how I would cope with the extra dimension of a recoiling gun. Hopefully I'll find out soon.

Rob.

Which brings us to which method is more accurate to shoot quickly.......sub 6 o'clock aim OR center of target........also, the only change to the target I believe is the addition of the thin horizontal white line across middle of the target, does this make it easier to use a center hold as you can now see the tops of sights easier ???........What do the majority of the top shooters use for aim point ??

Just like all shooting. Get the clearest sight picture you can and be as smooth as possible on the trigger. Oh and also you must stop on each target, do not be tempted to "fire on the way past!".

race1911 wrote:Which brings us to which method is more accurate to shoot quickly.......sub 6 o'clock aim OR center of target........also, the only change to the target I believe is the addition of the thin horizontal white line across middle of the target, does this make it easier to use a center hold as you can now see the tops of sights easier ???........What do the majority of the top shooters use for aim point ??

I use centre aim as do the other RF shooters I know. The horizontal white line doesn't go right across the card, it's only in the outer couple of rings (or thereabouts). It's still easy enough to pick out the sights despite them and the target being black, the target appears grey.

Rob.

Like what Rob said, plus, if you're looking, no, focusing on your front sight, you won't see the white lines.

R.M.

RobStubbs wrote:[ My 8 sec string starts with approximately 2.5 secs on the first target, on the 6 sec string it's more like 1.6 - 1.8. On the 4 sec string it drops to about 1 sec.

If we are measuring time the same way, then you are lightning fast.... :-) I think the most used way is to start the timing device when the targets starts to turn for facing or when the green light lights up. If so, reaction time, liftning, aiming and releasing the shot is included in the time. Anything quicker than 1.3 sec is really fast, normal is about 1.4 to 1.6. However, the mechanical systems with turning of targets might "corrupt" the values a bit. Some pneumatic or hydraulic systems might "hesistate" a couple of tenths before starting to move after the electrical system have ordered the move. It might be the other way around also, that the timing device does not trigger until the target has moved a bit.

However, if you shoot at least 50-60% 10 at the first shot at 1 sec and find the rythm to the second shot then go on with it! If not, I would recommend you to decrease the lifting speed a little.

BR,
Pär

BTW, Its 13 years since I was at Bisley for the Nordic Champs, is the range complex still as big and impressive, or is it partly abandond since your strict handgun laws come?

Par,
Bisley is pretty much the same - AFAIK (I shoot there a lot now but didn't before the ban).

I train (air) at 10M and my turning target only has second intervals. I practice the first shot release in the 4 sec string as 1 sec facing. This is OK for me but I suspect I may take a fraction longer in the actual series. Since I only shoot air I don't know how much recoil would make things worse but I would assume a quicker release allows better recoil recovery (?) It's one of those things that I want to practice with and investigate different approaches but at the moment I don't really have that luxury. I also have no coach to help me so I'm at the stage of 'if it works don't change it'.

Also in the book(s) I've read that is pretty much the recommended timings.

Rob.

Pär Hylander wrote:BTW, Its 13 years since I was at Bisley for the Nordic Champs, is the range complex still as big and impressive, or is it partly abandond since your strict handgun laws come?

Some pretty big changes since those Nordics (which were the last ones I shot in).

You may remember that to the left hand side of the main 30 point 50/25m pistol range was a 20 point 25m range. That smaller range has now been demolished and the main 50/25m range has been extended to 50 firing points.

From memory the Free Pistol at that Nordics was shot on a separate 50m rimfire only range. That has now been converted to a 25m range rated up to black powder.

There used to be another separate 25m pistol range (in a dip at the top of the hill). That has been demolished and been replaced by a modern fully equipped shotgun set up.

We now have a large modern building with a 50m rimfire range downstairs and 10m air upstairs. From memory there are a maximum of about 60+ firing points at each range. About half of the firing points at each range are permanently used with electronic targets. Because of the range configuration of the building the rest of the firing points can normally used for other sports. These help finance the shooting activities and can easily be converted back to electronic targets if needed for large meetings.

The building also contains a cafe, offices, 2 shops (1 for shooting), a well equipped gym, meeting rooms, showers, toilets etc.

All in all, the camp area is still just as big, probably more impressive and certainly much tidier than it was in those days.

RobStubbs wrote: I train (air) at 10M and my turning target only has second intervals. I practice the first shot release in the 4 sec string as 1 sec facing. This is OK for me but I suspect I may take a fraction longer in the actual series. Since I only shoot air I don't know how much recoil would make things worse but I would assume a quicker release allows better recoil recovery (?) It's one of those things that I want to practice with and investigate different approaches but at the moment I don't really have that luxury. I also have no coach to help me so I'm at the stage of 'if it works don't change it'.

Also in the book(s) I've read that is pretty much the recommended timings.

Rob.

Hmm, it still seems a bit to quick to me, but if you master it, go on with it. I would be very intresting to see a small video of it. Would that be possible to arrange? One or more from behind and above so the targets and your back kan be seen, if possible complete series also. One or more from the side with zoom in on pistol when aiming and shooting.

Are you using a 5 shot air pistol? With light trigger? What kind of target do you use at 10 m?

In sweden we use free triggerweight (will probably be changed to 500g) and downscaled 25m RF-target, the finnish/german-style. I believe that the 10 is 22mm.

Pär Hylander wrote:

RobStubbs wrote: I train (air) at 10M and my turning target only has second intervals. I practice the first shot release in the 4 sec string as 1 sec facing. This is OK for me but I suspect I may take a fraction longer in the actual series. Since I only shoot air I don't know how much recoil would make things worse but I would assume a quicker release allows better recoil recovery (?) It's one of those things that I want to practice with and investigate different approaches but at the moment I don't really have that luxury. I also have no coach to help me so I'm at the stage of 'if it works don't change it'.

Also in the book(s) I've read that is pretty much the recommended timings.

Rob.

Hmm, it still seems a bit to quick to me, but if you master it, go on with it. I would be very intresting to see a small video of it. Would that be possible to arrange? One or more from behind and above so the targets and your back kan be seen, if possible complete series also. One or more from the side with zoom in on pistol when aiming and shooting.

Are you using a 5 shot air pistol? With light trigger? What kind of target do you use at 10 m?

In sweden we use free triggerweight (will probably be changed to 500g) and downscaled 25m RF-target, the finnish/german-style. I believe that the 10 is 22mm.

Par,
I don't have access to a video so no, afraid that isn't possible. I have some targets I imported from germany which are direct scaled down 25M targets (and my scores suggest they are pretty much spot on). I have also used the french/finnish targets and whilst they are smaller, scores are again similar. We use the 500g trigger weight. I'm shooting this w/e so I'll try and see if I can watch some of the other shooters but I doub't I'll be able to spot anything since we're all shooting at the same time.

Rob.