TargetTalk

I shot my first 10m match with a daisy 747 and shot 531, I really liked the competition and I think I have to grab something better to improve my scores. Someone offered a hammerli 480K in good condition but it has left grips, am right. I checked an Aeron 99, Tau-7 match, Pardini k-58. I know very little about performance and durability of those czech guns, or if I plainly have to spend the big bucks buying a Steyr or a Morini. Please enlighten me in all this complex decision. Is that 480k a good gun?, anything low priced like the Tau good? Thanks in any advice.

Nem157,

Search the past posts for some answers related to your question. This has been talked about several times. With a little work you can look over some history of posts and gleen lots of information.

Very short summary...

Steyer and Morini are neck and neck at the top, all others follow behind. Your budget may determine your purchase decision.

Have fun.

"Nem 157":

Choosing the right AP is a very personal matter.
Of the guns you list the Hämmerli 480 is probably the best choise for most. A very good marksman can turn in respectable scores with the other guns you list, albeit it is more difficult.
The Hãmmerli 480 is light in weight, but features a "syntetics" grip that I dislike. It did not fit my hand, and altering the grip is more difficult. The gun has appeared in intern. comps. occasionally only.
The Pardini K58 is an underspanner. OK, but there are easier ways to shoot APs.

Limiting the favorable APs to Steyr (not Steyer, by the way) and Morini is a bit shortsighted. Like limiting the makes of good cars to Ford and Chevy. Not fair.
The Steyrs, like FWBs are constructed with big shooters with big hands in mind. Unless your hands are on the big side, and/or your fingers are on the (very) long side, one will find positioning the triggerfinger correctly not feasable.

The Morinis have been with us for about 14 years now, not much changed, and are worth a try.
The orther Morini, Cecares own "Matchguns MG 1" is good. Some specimens have very good triggers, as good as that of Morini 162s, or even better.
The dwell time of the MG 1 is shorter, or subjectively feels shorter to me, when firing it. The pellet velocity of the MG1 is the highest of the current precharged Aps.
Pellet velocity of the Morini 162 is on the low side.

And there are other APs. Pardini has two precharged APs wort trying. And ther is an Anschütz (similar to the Steyr, but not a dublicate).

It´s up to you. Test the guns yourself. Nobody but you can tell which one is the best one for you. By choosing one of those I have listed here, you will probably not get dissapointed.

John wrote: The Steyrs, like FWBs are constructed with big shooters with big hands in mind. Unless your hands are on the big side, and/or your fingers are on the (very) long side, one will find positioning the triggerfinger correctly not feasable..

The Steyrs are not constructed with big handed shooters in mind. Get a small grip and it fits a small hand. I myself have smallish hands but I know plenty of juniors with much smaller hands who happily shoot the Steyrs with no problems about trigger etc.

As I always say when this topic comes up; the only way to see if a gun suits you is to shoot it, at least try it out for size, feel etc in a shop if you can't test it on a range before you buy.

Rob.

I bought a Pardini K2S about a month ago. It is beautifully built, it shoots flawlessly and I am delighted that I made the decision to buy it.

I used to own a Hammerli 480K and found it to be a great gun, but reliability was an issue. Support for the pistol was average at best; even at the WC I went to where it broke. The gun couldn’t be fixed and it was the Morini rep that offered me a new-loaner pistol to shoot the match with. Needless to say I no longer own a Hammerli and own 2 Morini’s. There not perfect, the customer service is fantastic!

Brian

RobStubbs:

I own two Steyrs, a LP5 and a LP1. One arrived with a medium grip, the other with a small grip.
The smaller grips suits the palm width better. But the distance from the web of the hand up to the trigger remains much the same. Too long.

Obviously we have got an other variety of the Steyrs here in Europe, than you buy "over there" in the US.

Some solve the problem by removing the trigger. This reduces the reach by about 3,5 mm or ca 10%.

John wrote: I own two Steyrs, a LP5 and a LP1. One arrived with a medium grip, the other with a small grip.
The smaller grips suits the palm width better. But the distance from the web of the hand up to the trigger remains much the same. Too long.

Obviously we have got an other variety of the Steyrs here in Europe, than you buy "over there" in the US.

Some solve the problem by removing the trigger. This reduces the reach by about 3,5 mm or ca 10%.

John,
If you read my signature on the left of this post you see that 'over there' is actually 'over here' - i.e. UK. I have both an LP5 and 10 and the 5 originally came with a large grip, which I swapped with a medium. You can get small and even extra small grips but whatever the simple fact is that there is no great difference between Steyrs and anything else with regards grip size, trigger reach etc. And as I said a lot of our juniors are happily using the LP10 with no problems whatsoever.

That doesn't however alter my final statement that to buy the right gun for you you need to handle it and as many others as possible.

Regards,

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote: You can get small and even extra small grips but whatever the simple fact is that there is no great difference between Steyrs and anything else with regards grip size, trigger reach etc.

Oh dear, it's my day for disagreeing with you Rob.

I have medium grips on my Steyr LP5 and Morini 162EI.

The minimum trigger reach on the LP5 at the end of the first stage movement is 62mm. The LP1 and, I believe, the LP10 are the same. On the Morini it is 51mm.

Even my best friends wouldn't describe me as small but even I had to take metal off the back of the Steyr trigger shoe to get the correct reach.

I'll recommend the Tseug method: Buy everything on the market and sell only the ones you don't like.

All kidding aside, you are going to get a different answer from practically every responder when you pose a question like this, but one thing is for certain--What you choose should be what you like and can afford. I would suggest that you have at a minimum three or four possibilities, then go from there. Even though the features are very similar among top end pistols, the feel is unique to each marque and those that love Steyrs may dislike Hammerlis, Morini shooters may not like Walthers, Pardini shooters may dislike Anschutz, etc., etc. ad nauseum.

To find out, try a few of these tips: Look on the used market. Go to matches in your area and ask around to try different models. Ask friends that may have some of those that you are interested in. If all else fails, mortgage the house and use the Tseug method outlined above.

My two cents, for what it's worth.

Good Luck,

Patrick

David Levene wrote:Oh dear, it's my day for disagreeing with you Rob.

I have medium grips on my Steyr LP5 and Morini 162EI.

The minimum trigger reach on the LP5 at the end of the first stage movement is 62mm. The LP1 and, I believe, the LP10 are the same. On the Morini it is 51mm.

Even my best friends wouldn't describe me as small but even I had to take metal off the back of the Steyr trigger shoe to get the correct reach.

Don't worry about it I can live with being disagreed with - heck it happens often enough ;)

I'm about a foot smaller than you David and I can reach the trigger on the LP5 and 10 without any problem - I do remember the trigger on my LP10 being set right back but I assumed (believe) that's a quirk of my grip adjustments. If the reach is really that much less then I'm very suprised - and I've never heard it mentioned anywhere else. I also know a lot of juniors do shoot it so even if it is different than some other guns it is still properly shootable.

Anyway whether I'm right or wrong anyone buying a new gun needs at the very least to hold the thing and see what it feels like. Shoot it if at all possible before buying anything.

Rob.

Quarrying about the overly long trigger reaches of the FWB and Steyr airpistols:

It is not, sensu stricto a question of reaching the trigger "somehow", but to reach it properly.,
With airpistols, I have the trigger at center of my index fingers first link, that is about 10 mm from the very tip.
And I like that first link to be at 90 degrees of angle to the lenght axis of the gun. For me it is easier to pull the trigger properly straight backwards this way.

Any other points of wiev?

Guest,
It is of course very important to get the trigger positioned properly so that the finger sits correct. My LP10 is fine and correctly set up - at least as far as the trigger goes <g>. My coach has checked the trigger position as has our national coach - and both agree it's fine.

This is all the sort of thing you fine tune after you've bought the gun. The first thing is to get a gun that feels right for you and that you can work with. Don't rule anything out at the start and try as many different guns as possible.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

This is all the sort of thing you fine tune after you've bought the gun.

Not so. An overlong trigger-reach cannot be "fine tuned". Not even corse tuned.
Carving can help some, but bringing the trigger-reach of my LP5 down to normal will cut completely through the wood in the web area. A full 8 to 10 mm reduction down to "normal".

I think Morini 162s have a reasonable trigger-reach. No complaints from anyone about that. Shooters with large hands/long fingers can simply move the trigger forward slightly. No big deal, really.
But the opposite scenario, as with the Steyrs, is a big and difficult deal.

guest wrote:RobStubbs wrote:

This is all the sort of thing you fine tune after you've bought the gun.

Not so. An overlong trigger-reach cannot be "fine tuned". Not even corse tuned.
Carving can help some, but bringing the trigger-reach of my LP5 down to normal will cut completely through the wood in the web area. A full 8 to 10 mm reduction down to "normal".

I think Morini 162s have a reasonable trigger-reach. No complaints from anyone about that. Shooters with large hands/long fingers can simply move the trigger forward slightly. No big deal, really.
But the opposite scenario, as with the Steyrs, is a big and difficult deal.

You obviously buy a gun where you can reach the trigger or rather you don't buy one where you can't. I had, perhaps naively, assumed this goes without saying. My comment was referring to the fact that after you've bought your gun you will then move the trigger blade back / forwards etc to the correct position for you.

I still maintain however that in most cases a Steyr with the correct grip will be shootable (i.e. trigger positionable correctly) for most shooters.

Rob.