TargetTalk

if you want a really exciting final that will keep the audience how about this format. the top 8 or 6 go to the final where scores are zeroed. then each athlete shoots 6 shots and keeps the best shot starting from the athlete with the lowest score in the main event. tie breaker would be the second or third best shot. that way all have a chance even to the last shot, technique and nerves play a major part and i think people will easily understand this format as it has been in other sports more televised (jump, throwing sphere etc). plus commentary could focus on the athlete shooting and not have to follow 8 athletes simultaneously.

ruig wrote: ... [*]We usually buy new gear once in ten years (more often we buy used guns I think). Shooting isn't interesting for industry and potential sponsors, where Morini free pistol achieved natural monopoly because of no one wants to risk investing millions in business designing new free pistol and sale only 20-50 pcs per year first 10 years (very optimistic scenario

You are on to something here .... our "friends" at ISSF are changing the rules so often that new gear is mandatory every two years or so now (at least in rifle) ... hooray, one step in the long process for excitement has been figured out!

oh ...[/cynical_mode]

ghostrip wrote:if you want a really exciting final that will keep the audience how about this format. the top 8 or 6 go to the final where scores are zeroed. then each athlete shoots 6 shots and keeps the best shot starting from the athlete with the lowest score in the main event. tie breaker would be the second or third best shot. that way all have a chance even to the last shot, technique and nerves play a major part and i think people will easily understand this format as it has been in other sports more televised (jump, throwing sphere etc). plus commentary could focus on the athlete shooting and not have to follow 8 athletes simultaneously.

Tried to imagine... And? For what? 12 € worth medal on the podium? FIS skier winner makes in 70 seconds downhill about 100K €. That makes fun. Celebrity attraction.

all this sports you mention have something in common. easy access from common people (except biathlon perhaps). it easy to buy a pair of skis or running shoes or an bow. its also easy to find places to exercise. shooting is a controlled sport. in most countries you have to get a permit, ranges are far away etc. also guns have been associated with crime. so even people drawn to shooting tend to look at active forms like ipsc etc that mimic what people see in tv, movies etc. as a result ISSF style shooting has an even lower audience.

as for finals format. it should be simple put the spotlight to one shooter at the time and have the medals to the last shot (or something like that). definitely not the womens sport pistol format

ruig wrote:I tried to image what can make the final exciting for the neutral or semi-neutral public... without success.

Who likes long texts:
http://www.totalsportek.com/most-popular-sports/
http://www.la84.org/gender-stereotyping ... ed-sports/
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Olympics ... -in-Europe

• We don't have professional leagues
• We don't have big money in shooting
• We don't have even good prizes (Medal, Diploma, flowers... sometimes 5000 .177 Diabolos..hm)
• We don't have dynamics and real action on the stage
• We usually buy new gear once in ten years (more often we buy used guns I think). Shooting isn't interesting for industry and potential sponsors, where Morini free pistol achieved natural monopoly because of no one wants to risk investing millions in business designing new free pistol and sale only 20-50 pcs per year first 10 years (very optimistic scenario).
• We have enough firearms owners worldwide... how many % are interested in ISSF shooting? Example - our club about 300 members. In ISSF disciplines interested only ~20 (really active ISSF shooters 4 or 5).

It is puzzle for me why darts, archery and biathlon are so popular.

See youtube.
Archery world cup final video Vegas 2015 > 100K views.
Issf WCF air pistol 2015 8000 views

other sports have great prizes because people want to buy the same gear as its heroes. so its marketing. and people want to buy nikes adidas skis etc. people cannot buy easily morinis feins steyrs etc. they still can buy skis although they cant buy the guns ;)

ruig wrote:

ghostrip wrote:if you want a really exciting final that will keep the audience how about this format. the top 8 or 6 go to the final where scores are zeroed. then each athlete shoots 6 shots and keeps the best shot starting from the athlete with the lowest score in the main event. tie breaker would be the second or third best shot. that way all have a chance even to the last shot, technique and nerves play a major part and i think people will easily understand this format as it has been in other sports more televised (jump, throwing sphere etc). plus commentary could focus on the athlete shooting and not have to follow 8 athletes simultaneously.

Tried to imagine... And? For what? 12 € worth medal on the podium? FIS skier winner makes in 70 seconds downhill about 100K €. That makes fun. Celebrity attraction.

I have a suggestion for shooting finasl that mix two "concepts":

1 - Give some deserved advantage for the best scores in Qualifications.
2 - Using the "ruled out" rule during finals.

it simple, it is a duel mode:

A- The 8 best scores enter the finals doing duels: The first against the eighth, the second against de seventh, the third against the sixtieth and the fourth against the fifth. (Oh God, sorry for the poor english). They all shoot 6 shots to elimitate his opponent.

B - The 4 "survivors" are combined again on a "semi-final": The highest 6 shots score against the lowest, and the 2nd and 3rd against each other. Another 6 shots must be fired.

C - Now we have the two finalists for the Gold/silver and two finalists for the bronze and all do an 8 shot string to decide the Match.

All shots of the finals are on command, 50 seconds.

Alternative is , like Judo, give two bronze medals and let the Gold/Silver get full attention of the audience.

Total: 20 shots in less than 30 minutes.

For 3P, the Finals return to shoot only in Standing Position.

again, give me one event I can organize and I'll make it watchable, unlike the ISSF videos where there's absolutely nothing to look at. Look how well archery is presented. Wow, you can actually see the hits...

The actual format has little to do with view count (2 series of 3 shots of course add to the confusion), but the way you present it does. The ISSF videos are unwatchable. We can and can't blame them for that. If the money is not there, they simply can't make it more watchable.

@ FabioRifleRio

that's nonsense, sending home after 6 shots? You should join the ISSF, you'll fit right in.

hundert wrote: @ FabioRifleRio

that's nonsense, sending home after 6 shots? You should join the ISSF, you'll fit right in.

This is a concept. The total amount of shots of course must be well thinked e developed. (May be only four finalists doing more shots or so).

In my oppinion, there's no "sending home after 6 (or so) shots" because the shooter had already shot an entire qualification battle to reach the finals. The question is to evaluate what is the best format to gain excitement and attention of the audience.

A compromise solution on the table, to inspire the debate.

Hey ... no insult intended, but all these ideas do no good sitting on TT.
Email and get in touch with your Federation rep and get them to him.

You can probably sell us on anything different very easily .... them, you're gonna have some work I think.
The NIH Syndrome.

jhmartin wrote:Hey ... no insult intended, but all these ideas do no good sitting on TT.
Email and get in touch with your Federation rep and get them to him.

You can probably sell us on anything different very easily .... them, you're gonna have some work I think.
The NIH Syndrome.

I would agree and the problem is convincing the gods sitting on ISSF to listen.

Committee open for all ideas... Drop a line per email.

http://www.issf-sports.org/news.ashx?newsid=2457

Abhinav, the ISSF Athletes Committee looks very active. Is there a message you would like to pass forward to ISSF athletes?

We are here to bring the voice of the athletes into the decision-making process of the International Shooting Sport Federation. Communication is power and we would very much like that all ISSF athletes engage with the Athletes Committee more so that we have your ideas and aspirations at the heart of all our discussions. Everybody please feel free to contact us at any time on athletes@issf-sports.org

FabioRifleRio wrote:I have a suggestion for shooting finasl that mix two "concepts":

1 - Give some deserved advantage for the best scores in Qualifications.
2 - Using the "ruled out" rule during finals.

it simple, it is a duel mode:

A- The 8 best scores enter the finals doing duels: The first against the eighth, the second against de seventh, the third against the sixtieth and the fourth against the fifth. (Oh God, sorry for the poor english). They all shoot 6 shots to elimitate his opponent.

B - The 4 "survivors" are combined again on a "semi-final": The highest 6 shots score against the lowest, and the 2nd and 3rd against each other. Another 6 shots must be fired.

C - Now we have the two finalists for the Gold/silver and two finalists for the bronze and all do an 8 shot string to decide the Match.

All shots of the finals are on command, 50 seconds.

Alternative is , like Judo, give two bronze medals and let the Gold/Silver get full attention of the audience.

Total: 20 shots in less than 30 minutes.

For 3P, the Finals return to shoot only in Standing Position.

Running Target does something similar, only it is a point system - you get 1 point for a better shot than the opponent. First to reach 6 points with at least 2 point advantage wins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy1T1uR ... e=youtu.be

kaban56 wrote: Running Target...

Oh yes. RT. Reminded me one "funny" fresh story from last winter.

You can offer to ISSF everything you want... as RT did. ISSF chiefs will give you hope... in the reality everything is already decided.

ISSF gave RT time to prepare concept "Olympic RT - part 2". RT people invested many hours and energy... live demo during EM in Gyor this year (Youtube link in previous post). Two days before meeting - "sorry fellas... next time". They did it without any discussion. It is politics and money. It will not be better. I suppose that next ISSF chief will be Lisin.

ruig wrote:You can offer to ISSF everything you want... as RT did. ISSF chiefs will give you hope... in the reality everything is already decided.

Yup, reminds me of Squash (my other sport) and it's attempts to get into the Olympics: http://www.worldsquash.org/ws/news/25917

They have fulfilled all the requirements of the IOC but continually get knocked back. You are correct, decisions are already made, then sports/disciplines are strung along at great cost just to say that a consultation process was used!

I know that no one here wants to hear it, but I think if you want to improve viewing, ditch the jackets and pants. I think it would make the sport more approchable to the average viewer, you would be able to see their positions more clearly. Personally, the costs of the clothes kept me from steering my kids into the sport. I think that most people can understand the money spent on a firearm, but the costs of the clothes keeps people out of the game.

I think the decision is fallen. ISSF don't want negative background discussions before Olympics and ISSF general assembly (GA) in July.
Two billionaires have a deal. I am sure. I hope I am wrong... but.

Read between the lines.
GA will vote for new constitution in July.

OLD

1.2 ISSF HEADQUARTERS
1.2.1 The headquarters must be in the country of the President and of
the Secretary General. If they have different different domiciles, the
Administrative Council must decide the location.

NEW

2 ISSF HEADQUARTERS
2.1 The ISSF Headquarters is in Munich, Federal Republic of Germany

etc.

No one wants to fly to Moscow for every ISSF meeting after Lisin's election as head of ISSF. And now there are no other candidates as I know. We like or don't like him... but no alternative for now.

UPD:
Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun committee => now 8 members => new constitution 5 members.

ruig wrote:Read between the lines.
GA will vote for new constitution in July.

OLD

1.2 ISSF HEADQUARTERS
1.2.1 The headquarters must be in the country of the President and of
the Secretary General. If they have different different domiciles, the
Administrative Council must decide the location.

NEW

2 ISSF HEADQUARTERS
2.1 The ISSF Headquarters is in Munich, Federal Republic of Germany

Reading between the lines, as you suggest, that's just tying up an anomaly that's been in the rules for MANY years.

See the first part of the current rule 1.23.1
"The Federation according to the decision by the Administrative Council has its Headquarters in Munich, Germany..."

No hidden agenda there as far as I can see.

The ISSF headquarter has never been in the country of the president, always in that of the Secretary General (last 5 decades Ernst Zimmermann Wiesbaden/GER, Horst Schreiber/Munich, GER, Franz Schreiber/Munich, GER) - so there is really no need (or no wish, as much as I know) to move the headquarter to Russia or anywhere else. It is established and working well in Munich since decades, and if President and Secretary General live in different countries (which happens in most cases), the place of the headquarter was decided without any problems, as far as I know.

History: http://www.issf-sports.org/theissf/orga ... rters.ashx

ANY new people with influence in the ISSF executive committee are positive. The bad rating of the ISSF in the transparency ranklists should be warning enough. Even good intentions lead to, hm, dependencies on long term.

Agreed. Only speculations for now (.... votes trading? "you get your HQ but you rise your arm when I say"). We'll see results soon.

But it is fix... I will not sell free pistol regardless of any decision after Olympics ;-)
It makes fun for me. No matter olympic or not. Like 25m STP.

There is a life behind the olympic rings... ;)

Think of how much fun Standard Pistol, 300m-shooting or Centerfire can be. And Free Pistol and prone shooting will be popular in most countries apart from if it's an olympic event or not - we have an increasing number of Running Target matches here, on 10 but also on 50 meters. And a lot of former champions partipate, now as seniors...