TargetTalk

FredB wrote:

Mass Shooter wrote:
Fred, have you ever tried CCI Mini Group Target Short 22?

Older style w/ green label 100 rnd. package?

I've never tried a CCI .22 Short labeled as you describe. But CCI has relabeled/renamed several of its offerings over the years. For example, CCI Std. Velocity - 0032 - was also called Mini Group at one point. The package numbers, however, do stay consistent. I'll bet the number on your Short Mini Group is 0037, same as on the current Target Short.

FredB

"I'll bet the number on your Short Mini Group is 0037, same as on the current Target Short."

Yes, 0037 in upper right corner of label is correct

Does anyone have a spare or unused extractor for a DES69.
Or know who may have one in stock?
Thanks!
JLK

Shooting Kiwi wrote: Another DES 69. This one is strange: has had feeding problems. This seems to be because, compared to the other one, the face of the breech lies further to the rear. Can't remember the distance, but in the order of 1 or 2mm. This means that the feeding round jams obliquely in the breech, before it has cleared the magazine lips, causing the top of the feeding ramp to indent the underside of the bullet. It must be a manufacturing defect. When time permits, I'll machine it back and attend to the chamber, as required.

Hi everyone,

A newcomer to the site here. I was just doing some googling around and ended up here, and noticing there are quite a few fellow Unique shooters, decided to register.

I know the posting I’m replying is quite aged, but just in case someone is still wondering about this. I had exact same symptoms, but no reference unit so I don’t know whether the breech location is incorrect. I wondered this for a while, until I noticed that the jam always happened with the last round of the magazine. And a little further investigation revealed that it was also with one of the two magazines, so obviously, it was, in my case, mag related. The follower is rather soft aluminium, and the rim of the last round eventually digs into the material, creating a little notch that causes slight drag when the slide tries to push the round out. Carefully filing the front wall of the notch (just the buildup of the material pushed forward by the rim), you can smooth it out enough to prevent the rim being ever so slightly jammed to the follower. In my case, this cured the problem permanently.

About the ammo you feed to your Unique DES 69. I’ve found mine to be a bit finicky about its diet. Everything shoots fine from the accuracy perspective, but it certainly requires a bit more power to cycle perfectly than most other target pistols I’ve shot. Cheap rounds like CCI Target Standard and Geco Pistol work fine, but many softer loads don’t fully cycle causing stovepipes or failing to pull the next round from the mag. And of course it makes no sense shooting anything more powerful than you need to cycle well, just wearing out the gun and generating more recoil. What are your favorites? Any similar problems?

Hi Mika,

Glad to hear that you were able to sort out your problem. Unfortunately, it's the breech position that's at fault in my misbehaving 69.

AFAIK, the 69 is not known to be fussy about ammo. Both of my 69s cycled perfectly reliably on any ammunition I tried. Lapua 'Magazine' and the similar (identical?) SK 'Standard Plus' are some of the cheapest available quality ammo here, are 100% reliable, low velocity and work well in the two 69s, the IZH 35, Hammerli 208 and TOZ 35. The round is a little too long for the FAS 607, tending to jam in the mag and cause feeding problems. Fiocchi ammo for that one.

Shooting Kiwi,

sorry to hear that there is no hope it would be something this easy.

I've also shot some SK Magazine rounds, but don't like them (me, that is, the gun will feed fine) because of the thick lube all over them. And here they are actually a bit more expensive than for example CCI Std. Really don't understand why, a few years ago when they were under the Lapua brand, they were quite cheap.

One example of nice and previously reasonably priced .22lr ammo was Lapua Master. But not for my DES 69. It simply wouldn't cycle many manufacturing lots. That's a bit weird, as it's not especially slow or anything. That was the time before they had the M and L diameters. One of the newer pistol rounds, don't remember whether it was Pistol King or Rapid Pistol OSP, was also not reliable. Anyway, nowadays that Lapua is no longer really a domestic brand for me (I'm a Finn), and the price has gone up even faster than many other brands, I don't bother trying to check their offering first.

Could I have a stiffer recoil spring? Are there alternative springs, or just a standard one? Of course it could be an individual fluke.

Mika

I have never heard of alternative springs.

Just what happens when yours fails to cycle? It's rather difficult to offer suggestions from a distance...

Is the hammer cocking reliably? It might be that the sear spring pressure is insufficient to retain the hammer every time. This spring is the flat spring lying in front of the hammer spring, against the frame. Its pressure is adjusted by the cross-headed screw in the dovetailed part which retains the bottom end of the hammer spring. Beware! There is a tiny detent spring and ball which bears on the left side of this screw. The screw has no head, so can be screwed right through the frame. That will be the last you will see of the detent components! I've seen two Uniques in which the screw had been screwed right through the frame, and was lying skewed between the sear spring and the dovetail piece. Also beware: the sear springs seem brittle - I broke one trying to get it out. Remove its retaining pin (just below upper grip screw) - don't take short-cuts!

No idea whether this is of any help to you, but the warning about the detent ball might help someone...

Shooting Kiwi wrote:I have never heard of alternative springs.

Just what happens when yours fails to cycle? It's rather difficult to offer suggestions from a distance...

Hi again, and thanks for your patience with the somewhat vague questions. The symptoms all seem to stem from the slide failing to retract far enough. With very slow rounds, the case won't even eject, hammer stays in the fired position (I'd say "hammer down", although it's actually "up", well, I do shoot IPSC..). With some of the match ammo, it will cycle some of the time, but often stovepipe with next round left in the mag, sometimes hammer cocked, sometimes not.

I will look into the sear spring issue. Thanks for the warning about the fragility of the spring and the detent components! I think the problem has more to do with the recoil spring or maybe other forces slowing down the retraction of the slide - like too strong a hammer spring.

Mika

Hmm...

So what does it feel like if you retract the slide by hand, with the hammer cocked and the mag. out? The slide should move freely and smoothly, with perhaps some 'creaking' from the recoil spring. I have just done a rough and ready measurement of the force required to retract the slide fully in this condition: it's under 3kg. If yours is more, I'd suspect some major distortion of slide or spring guide rod, or, perhaps, a badly distorted recoil spring. The hammer, when cocked, is in a position such that the back of the slide contacts the hammer for only the last 5mm (approx.) of its movement.

Is it possible that the breech face is very badly peened or the chamber damaged? Can you easily manually load and remove an unfired round? Can you cycle the thing manually?

[It's all coming back... I should have said that I broke the sear spring not by trying to remove it, but trying to winkle out a disengaged adjusting screw - just lever up the end of the screw, I thought, apply fine tweezers, then 'click'... and so started the hunt for spares (sob).]

Shooting Kiwi wrote:Hmm...

So what does it feel like if you retract the slide by hand, with the hammer cocked and the mag. out?

It's extremely smooth. I'd say, the smoothest of my guns, but then this is the only semi-auto .22 I have. I don't have the gun at hand here, but I'd say the force to pull the slide back is not very much, it's smooth, the gun is clean and I don't remember ever seeing any damage to the chamber. I'll have to check that, though. As it's not trivial to see through the barrel in this gun, you have to look at the reflection of light from either the hammer face or something else behind the chamber, so I don't do that so often. Anyway, one good thing about the DES is the shape of the firing pin, it doesn't easily damage the edge of the chamber even if someone inadvertently dry fires the gun. But as said, I'll check this. I can manually cycle relatively easily, but this is another thing I'll check, as I haven't pulled a live round out for quite some time now. It works so well with the ammo it likes ;)

When the hammer is in the fired position, though, retracting the slide takes quite significantly more force. I think the difference is surprisingly big, compared to bigger pistols. A .45 takes more force, but the relative difference is not as big as with my DES. Well, on the other hand, it doesn't take more force to fire a centerfire primer than it does to fire a .22 round. So if I have the same force for the hammer and a bigger force for the recoil spring, it's natural to have smaller relative difference. Hmm, this pondering probably isn't too helpful, I'll just check the things you pointed out and come back later. I think it's quite possible you have already pointed me in the right direction, now it's just time for me to stop guessing and do my homework.

Hi,

back with some measurements. Hammer cocked, pushing slide back takes 3.5 kg up to the point where it just starts touching the face of the hammer. Hammer in the fired position, the maximum force a bit after the hammer starts moving is 7.2 kg. Well, that's mass units, I did this on a normal bathroom scale but multiply with 9.81 to get Newtons. Does it sound normal?

The chamber is clean, a live round goes in and out smoothly, although a complete cycle with an inserted magazine won't work. The pistol cannot normally eject a round with a bullet. It comes out, but the bullet catches the edge of the chamber when the rim hits the magazine lips - which I don't find abnormal, this is the case with some other .22's as well. An empty case flies out cleanly, both after a shot or manually by pulling the slide.

Also, I rechecked that the slide moves freely and smoothly, although I have experienced a couple of times the common problem with the original DES 69, having the barrel weight slide back so it touches the guide rod. That of course messes up both accuracy and reliability, but luckily doesn't seem to cause permanent damage, unless that is something you can't easily spot. After moving the weight back and tightening the screws once again, it works just fine. The rod is straight, spring looks completely normal.

Well, maybe I'm making this a bigger problem than it is. I'm happy the gun works fine with the CCI std and Geco, those are much more accurate than I am and the price is ok. I'm just curious, as other people tell their DES 69's are happily eating subsonics and very soft match ammo and mine is so different in this aspect. It's a great gun, and at my training rate I'll retire before I would honestly need a better one.

Mika

Sounds fine so far. A mystery. Sorry, I've no more ideas at present.

I'll PM you if I think of anything. Things are a bit disorganised here: getting big mains voltage fluctuations for some reason... All part of the fun of rural living in a funny little country, far from anywhere, I suppose... ...and then there are the earthquakes...!

Kiwi, thanks for your help and hope you get no further damage due to the earthquakes. We keep reading about them in the news, must be rough!

Someone wrote she/he has locktited the screws that press the pad against the barrel to keep the weight in place. I find that it still moves a bit, it's not really about the screws coming loose, just the weight sliding even when tightened. I've been thinking about putting a drop of soft threadlock between the pad and the barrel, hoping it's not too tight. Any other ideas that wouldn't permanently alter the gun?

So I am looking for a used grip for the 2000U pistol. I have tried posting a message (in French) to http://www.letirsportif.com/forum, but they keep deleting the posts.

Any other french sites or forums where I would likely have more success?

Keith Walker

Good thing I'm not currently an active competitive shooter.Cheap Tera Gold
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I recently purchased beautiful UniqueDes69 with original RHG. Is anybody there with spare original LHG for Des69?
This pistol is engineering masterpiece. The only problem I had with inserting magazine gripping by its catch. After shortening catch spring is working perfectly with magazine "lock in", very important for correct functioning.
And the story of this "unique" Unique pistols is still continuing...
When I made few shots with high resolution camera, I discovered "stamped mark" on frame, small crown with writing ST ETIENNE just under magazine catch button. Well, that mean frame was made by some of the manufacturer in City of St Etienne. The only my suggestion is, Unique manufacturer MAPF didn't has capacity with forged machinery to made so precision pistol frames.

Just a quick note here to say I've finally made the decision to sell my DES-32/U. Because it's located in Canada it won't be of much interest to US shooters, but I do have a number of items that could either be sold with the pistol (preferable) or indvidually. They include a spare magazine in fully functional condition, an unmodified RH Medium Rink grip, factory brass catcher, and a bag of assorted small parts including springs etc.

As mentioned, preference will be given to selling all the bits and pieces with the pistol, but if that doesn't work out then I will sell them off individually. This is a gorgeous pistol, but I've got to make room in my lockup so I'm thinning the herd of duplicates, and since I only have two hands it does me no good to have more Center Fire pistols than that number! LoL

Have you sold the DES32 yet Mark?

keithwwalker wrote:Have you sold the DES32 yet Mark?

Actually I traded my LP5 to Mark for it. Cured the burr on the holdopen notch, scope mount coming, new match grips in process, and it tests as the most accurate 32 (GSP and FAS603 are my others) in my hands so far.

Now if I could only find a DES96U to complete the trio (owned a 69 since 1976), I'd be in heaven.

Dr Jim

I've received word that Triple K now has DES/69 .22LR magazines available for sale if anyone is looking.

I finally received my 2000U from Potter Firearms in Austrailia, thanks to ISS being the importer. Sad to say, I have heard that Potter is closing up shop.

Photos later.

Keith Walker