TargetTalk

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=21215

Note the prices on some.

I wouldn't even dignify half of those as "groups"...

Yuck!

a bit disappointed with my first try of this pistol, every 15-20 shots I get a misfire (or misair). not sure what is happening, the pellet is still in the breach and it sounds like it tried to shoot. Recocking without doing anything else it then shoots. any ideas or does this require a call to the factory? i'm now thinking the action might not have been fully closed and locked, operator error.

Offhand groups at 10m were within the size of a quarter at hour 14 of my day, by hour 16 I was still within 2" (I shouldn't have been shooting at that time but the pistol is a pleasure when it works). My range is Lead-Free Only as putting in all the town required filtration and hazardous waste procedures were cost prohibitive for a new business. we are seeing hole in hole accuracy at 50' with the lead-free competition pellets when benched.

Switched between H&N Match Greens and Predator GTO's with no noticeable difference. (i'm 50 and tired at this point so add this factor to the review) haven't tried the Gamo wadcutters in anything yet, they don't look as nice is all I can say for now.

The 3 of us love the feel and angle of the grip, the quality of the metal and finish is good, we didn't notice any pinch points like in the $40 Beeman p17. Comparing a $388 pistol to a $40 pistol is only similar actuation and fps and yes, with the Crony and lead-free wadcutters we were getting 390-400 fps out of both pistols.

I invite the better shooters to come down and try these with lead-free and do a better/more experienced review.

newenglandairgun wrote:...every 15-20 shots I get a misfire (or misair). not sure what is happening, the pellet is still in the breach and it sounds like it tried to shoot. Recocking without doing anything else it then shoots. ....

Except for the trigger-stop screw, it is my understanding that the guts of the 604 and new 6004 are the same. I've not found a 6004 section drawing so will use this one of the 604.

Rearward movement of the trigger disengages the sear lever from the hammer notch. The spring-loaded hammer then swings counter-clockwise and the hammer's finger strikes the head of the valve shaft moving it downward to open the gate which dumps the air charge into the barrel.

When you lift the barrel to cock the trigger the hammer finger is lifted by the head of the valve stem and it rotates the hammer clockwise to re-engage the hammer notch with the sear.

There isn't anything inside to interfere with hammer swing once it starts moving. If all you hear when pulling the trigger is a click, it could be that the hammer finger is striking the stem but the valve shaft is binding and not moving down far enough to open. If it was an old pistol, the valve would likely be glued from dried or improper lube. Because it is new it is probably a valve assembly problem, so use your warranty.

Slofyr, you do nice work.

It seems like the valve is venting into the grip instead of into the barrel. I'm not seeing signs of blowby on the breech seal. I'm hoping I have more than a warranty as I'm a reseller, will find out today what that gets me. I have 2 of 3 units that are doing the same thing, will try the third tonight.


https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

newenglandairgun wrote: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

The value of my 604's just increased. That Chiappa 6004 you photographed is clearly not manufactured with the same precision and quality as the FAS 604. The 604 breech face is machined smooth. The 604 parts and assembly have symmetry and alignment. The 6004's rough finish and welted casting seams are new. It's like seeing the crudeness of a TOZ-35 up close and comparing it to an 84e or Hammerli.

3 for 3 with these, all have the same issue, the first one did ok for a while and got progressively worse, the other 2 were just total frustration. they would misfire 3 shots before actually sending the pellet toward the target. all sound like they are relieving pressure into the grip.

one had no sight adjustment left, aim for the bottom of the target and the shot would go over the target. the other two centered fine.

all had blemished around the breech and catch that got worse with use. attached photo are prior to any use.

Looks like a bad production run with lots of room for improvement. I was hoping for good target pistols, my $40 Beeman p17's are performing like $400 pistols and the $400 pistol is just a paper weight, so sad.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bzxyq ... authuser=0

slofyr wrote:

newenglandairgun wrote: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

The value of my 604's just increased. That Chiappa 6004 you photographed is clearly not manufactured with the same precision and quality as the FAS 604. The 604 breech face is machined smooth. The 604 parts and assembly have symmetry and alignment. The 6004's rough finish and welted casting seams are new. It's like seeing the crudeness of a TOZ-35 up close and comparing it to an 84e or Hammerli.

My experience is entirely opposite from yours. My 6004 exhibits immaculate machining, fit and finish. Performance has been faultless. In fact, I cannot fault anything on the gun - and I am a very fussy (read obsessive)individual.

And as I said before, in contrast, my 604 shows a "homemade cottage-industry" look with noticeable blemishes and casting faults. Shoots OK though....

Update: Had a look at the pictures of the 6004 in the link above and it is quite rough. If it was me, I would send it back and demand another one.

TO: New England Air Gun
Do you have (or can you get) chrony results for your pistols?
Also, please keep us updated on the progress of your warranty claim with Chiappa if you go this route.

Gwhite wrote:I'll be very curious to hear how the cocking force is. These would be a cheaper, lighter, and from the looks, better balanced alternative than the IZH for juniors. My club has a program to introduce kids to air pistol, and they are using Crosman 2300T's, which are absolutely atrocious. It was all they could afford, but I bet we could get grant money to replace them with these. We need something that can be easily operated by 10 year old girls.

cocking force is reasonable. I have some Beeman P17's, they are tough to cock but real good shooters for $40.
3 of 3 6004's were returned to AOA for replacements, should have new ones this week. They found no fault, but they were discharging into the handgrip on us. I'm really hoping the lemons are limited and the new ones function well, it's a very nice pistol for $388.

The Beeman has sharp pinch points when cocking, the FAS doesn't have any and the edges are all nicely rounded.

When they come in, come to Hudson and try the FAS and Beeman.

ScottF wrote:TO: New England Air Gun
Do you have (or can you get) chrony results for your pistols?
Also, please keep us updated on the progress of your warranty claim with Chiappa if you go this route.

Pistol were returned and 3 more are on their way back, hope to have them next week.
AOA got them and said they were all shooting fine.

Have Crony and will post results.

I'm really looking forward to getting good ones this time.

Newengland, it was only by searching for comments on the FAS 6004 that I found this forum, and this thread. I have an e-mail in to AofA asking about quality control issues with these pistols. I will be eager to hear what you think of your replacements, as I am very strongly leaning toward buying one.

ok, got it figured out and i first bow my head in shame :-(

the replacements work fine, kind-of fine, the issue is with the initial fit of the Lead-Free pellet. The head of the pellet fits fine, the skirt is real tight. If you use a setting tool get it past the breach and into the rifling, it moves through the barrel slick as anything. Lead pellets would deform easier and you wouldn't see the issues I saw.

i'm thinking a bit of crowning on the breach end might help the lead free pellets, but will run that by the factory and see what they think.

i'm not sure why we had better success and fewer misfires with warm vs cold guns but we worked that issue for quite a while and warm has always been better. our pellets were all at the same temp.

Tonight, three of us put about 100 rounds through each of 3 pistols making sure our lead-free pellets were set in the barrel and not a single misfire.

Nice toys, I'm claiming one for myself.

I was really tempted to buy one, but this thread at the Classic Air Pistol Association forum turned me off. A user stripped the rear sight adjustment screw. Mind you, it's only one user, on the internet . Meanwhile, there are probably hundreds of satisfied owners that think I should get one... Oh, the internet!!

http://classicapa.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1100

desben wrote:I was really tempted to buy one, but this thread at the Classic Air Pistol Association forum turned me off. A user stripped the rear sight adjustment screw. Mind you, it's only one user, on the internet . Meanwhile, there are probably hundreds of satisfied owners that think I should get one... Oh, the internet!!

http://classicapa.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1100

I find it very hard to believe that a sight adjustment screw would strip whilst, allegedly, gently turning the screw. They're not made out of papier-mâché

I have a 6004 ( as well as an older 604 ) and cannot fault it. It's value for money is exceptional and it is a great training air pistol.

You write in a previous post that you have a chrony. Can you post chrony results for these three pistols? Say, five shots each?

newenglandairgun wrote:ok, got it figured out and i first bow my head in shame :-(

the replacements work fine, kind-of fine, the issue is with the initial fit of the Lead-Free pellet. The head of the pellet fits fine, the skirt is real tight. If you use a setting tool get it past the breach and into the rifling, it moves through the barrel slick as anything. Lead pellets would deform easier and you wouldn't see the issues I saw.

i'm thinking a bit of crowning on the breach end might help the lead free pellets, but will run that by the factory and see what they think.

i'm not sure why we had better success and fewer misfires with warm vs cold guns but we worked that issue for quite a while and warm has always been better. our pellets were all at the same temp.

Tonight, three of us put about 100 rounds through each of 3 pistols making sure our lead-free pellets were set in the barrel and not a single misfire.

Nice toys, I'm claiming one for myself.

Crony results , only one pistol, sold and shipped the other two today.

H&N Match Green Lead-Free 5.25gr
10 rounds, Low 411.3, High 422.0, Average 418.8, extreme spread 10.72, Standard Deviation 3.60

H&N Baracuda Green Lead-Free 6.48gr
10 rounds, Low 359.2, High 377.0, Average 368.4, extreme spread 17.80, Standard Deviation 4.89

Note: Lead Free pellets require the pellet to be "set" in the barrel, the skirt is larger than the head of the pellet and will prevent the gun from firing. Lead is softer than tin and will form to the barrel under the guns pressure without the need for setting.

Hi, I'm a newbie to the SSP pistol. Just got a FAS 6004. I am an experienced target and match shooter (my younger days), but not airguns. Since I'm retired, I plan to spend some time shooting bullseyes with the 6004, and mini-sniping with the FWB 300s I acquired last fall.

Anyway, since this thread is about the 6004, I'll talk about it. I'm pleased with the way the gun handles and shoots, although I did need to change the grip a bit to better fit my hand. I've so far been shooting patches of tree bark from the front porch, but it's getting warmer so I will set up my range in the next week or so.

As received, the sights are pretty much on but will fine tune on the bench. The only difficulty was with trigger adjustment. The gun came with a long, single stage trigger, and the instructions in the manual didn't really tell me anything. I am a former gunsmith, and no instructions were needed to get a good adjustment on a Beeman R-1 or the 300s. It took me quite awhile to dope out how the screws wanted to be set for the proper 2-stage pull with a clean break at the end.

There have been no faults with the pistol after about 100 rounds in two days. It's interesting to note the issues with lead-free pellets.

I wanted to ask about lubricating pellets. It seems I read somewhere that this is normal practice for match pistols, but perhaps I misread something. Do match pellets come pre-lubed?

Sorry to take up so much space, but it seems I have a lot to learn.

Bruce

bruce.van-deuson wrote:As received, the sights are pretty much on but will fine tune on the bench.

Don't bother doing that. All you will end up with is sights that are set up for shooting from a bench.

If you are a newbie as you say, fire 10 shots using your normal (correct) shooting technique and adjust the sights to centre the group on the targets.

bruce.van-deuson wrote: I wanted to ask about lubricating pellets. It seems I read somewhere that this is normal practice for match pistols, but perhaps I misread something. Do match pellets come pre-lubed?

It's about 30 years since I last saw anyone lubricating lead pellets, and it wasn't a brilliant idea even then.

If you've got the trigger reasonably well set up, and if the guns only fired 100 shots then it will change once it's run in, then just get on and learn to shoot it properly.