TargetTalk

torontogunguy wrote:Would someone please tell me where I can find a FAS 603 (and manuals for the 602 & 603). I am getting very frustrated here. Been looking for almost a year now.

Anyone want to sell their FAS 603 to an upcoming young olympian? The future of our sport and a great kid? Andrew is 13 and an Air Cadet. He is a great student, a member of both the RCAC marching band and the school band and so on.

Your FAS 603 would be going to a great home to be sure.... but we are not asking you to donate it. Heavens NO! Andrew has been working hard and saving every penny as well as his allowance. Doing extra chores, babysitting, cutting lawns, washing cars and anything else he can do to make a buck honestly. He has busted his chops to buy this gun and now he cannot find one. Talk about despondent!

He has a great FAS 602 rimfire but that's not going to get him to the nationals or the olympics without the mate... the 603.

So, if you have any idea of where we might find one. PLEEEEZ. Email me right away. Dad here is going to make up the difference in cost of course and pick up the cost of coaching and all the traveling. Andrew is the future of our sport and you can rest assured if not for kids like Andrew and others, our sport would die off this generation. Let's give him a hand and locate a 603. Please help. We just need to know where and how much. That's all.

Thanks in advance.

Murray Lampert
Toronto Ontario
416-347-8746
MDL@Bell.Blackberry.Net

The 603 won't get him to the Olympics as there is no Center Fire event and as for the 602 the only Olympic event that could be used in is the Rapid Fire for which there are far superior pistols.

I suggest if he has Olympic dreams he get himself a good Air Pistol, Free Pistol or a .22 to shoot Rapid fire with.

Why so set on a 603?

Richard H wrote:[

The 603 won't get him to the Olympics as there is no Center Fire event and as for the 602 the only Olympic event that could be used in is the Rapid Fire for which there are far superior pistols.

I suggest if he has Olympic dreams he get himself a good Air Pistol, Free Pistol or a .22 to shoot Rapid fire with.

Why so set on a 603?[/quote]

We are not absolutely set on the 603; it's just that we already have the 602 and the 603 is its 'soul mate'; so that he doesn't have to change grip, weight, feel, etc. in going from rimfire to centrefire. And I suppose that with regards to Olympic glory... we are really unfamiliar with the Olympics and just hoping to see him advance as far as he is able in his chosen avocation (one of them anyway). The local target shooting league seems to use centre fire and rim fire and goes through a set series of shooting events that are timed, one of which, of course, is rapid fire.

In any event, as neophytes at this, it just seemed logical to find and acquire the matching centre fire pistol to what we are already using.

I would love to find out more about olympic shooting; any suggestions as to where one would go to read up on the topic? My personal vision is always one of the fellow on skis dropping to the ground in the snow and ripping off ten shots, getting up and skiing on.

Regards,

Murray
Torontogunguy

Others have written warnings about the FAS .32 in this thread. Please, read the wriitng at the wall, "torontogunguy".
The 603 is old, it emerged in the early 80s. It newer gained much following.
David Leevene is, to my knowledge, one of very few promoting this gun. Remember David had a supporting teem to keep is guns working in his heydays.
I do own a FAS .32, an old one from mid 80s. Extended firing (60 rounds or more) from this pistol brings calamities...
-Ejection and feeding is unreliable. Due to design shortcomings.
-Hammer assembly will work loose during firing. Lock-titing-down does not help in the long run.
- Trigger sear will wear rapidly, and the trigger pull gets long and kind ov sliding feel. This can only be fixed by regrinding the edges, or replacing the hammer assembly. (The factory have not been able to supply a new hammer assembly to my pistol).
- Rubber-buffers wears out (two-legged fixing-clip breakes)
- the rearmost part of the frames have a tendency to break off, from a steady diet of mild factory fodder!

The FAS is outdated. Probably the worst .32 S&W used target pistol buy awailable. Which it is often not, due to broken pistols/frames.

My advice, stay away from this one.
Well, I have to admit, accuracy is ok. As with most .32 S&W target autos...

Richard H wrote:I suggest if he has Olympic dreams he get himself a good Air Pistol, Free Pistol or a .22 to shoot Rapid fire with.

\
I'm with Richard. at his age, get him into Air and or Free Pistol, then he has a chance to be competitive and do something with the sport. To be a good Rapid Fire shooter, you should go the precision route first, otherwise you are just burning a lot of rounds for not much gain. Richard, is a good source of info, was a coach for the Canadian team at last weeks just finished USA World Cup

789 wrote:The 603 is old, it emerged in the early 80s. It newer gained much following.

Maybe not where you were, but there were an awful lot of them at the World Championships in 1986 and 1990.

789 wrote:David Levene is, to my knowledge, one of very few promoting this gun. Remember David had a supporting teem to keep is guns working in his heydays.

If only that were true. Apart from at the major matches I was my own "supporting team".

I have always admitted that the 603 needed more TLC than many of its competition, but if you could look after it then you had a very easy gun to shoot well.

With the "patchy" factory support even I would have to think very hard before recommending a 603 now.

Thank you everyone for your comments. Andrew seems to have an aptitude for this sport if we can keep him reigned in and concentrating. It has been suggested to me that some good quality coaching would go far; and I can see its benefit simply from the comments on here. It is certainly amazing how much one realizes one does NOT know when in the company of experienced shooters. And I am grateful. (And serious).

There are also a pair of Walthers for sale on gunbroker.com.... any comments on the Walthers for target shooting?

I am not sure that Andrew himself has Olympic aspirations to be honest. He is certainly an avid target shooter and like I say, seems to have a great aptitude for it (I laminated his first 25 yard .22 set... it was amazing).

So, where does one go from here? I want to continue to whet his whistle for target shooting. At this point I am not sure that his testosterone (13 years old, eh?) is going to permit him to shoot air guns again. He shoots .45ACP well... this has something to do with the big bang theory I believe.

He does take great enjoyment out of shooting an Anschutz 64 and a Mossberg 144LSB that we recently acquired; and he does amazingly well with that too. He is essentially blind in one eye (the wrong one.. he is right handed and shoots aiming with his left eye... try and figure that one out... and that's why he prefers pistols). Yet he can shoot targets at 100M that I cannot even see. I need to use a spotting scope to see the target. He tells me where he is hitting without a scope... and we use iron sights on the two aforementioned rifles (micrometer peep sights).

Andrew is a Royal Canadian Air Cadet and very very active in that wonderful organization; they offer a Range Safety Officer course and I believe he will try to get into that program this summer at CFB Borden.

Thank you again for your comments and input and please please keep it coming.

Murray Lampert
Richmond Hill

Richard H wrote: The 603 won't get him to the Olympics as there is no Center Fire event and as for the 602 the only Olympic event that could be used in is the Rapid Fire for which there are far superior pistols.

Even if the Center fire event was in the olympics, there is a high risk that a 603 could prevent him from ever getting to the Olympics for any event !

Current coaching theory warns _heavily_ _against_ Juniors using anything larger that a 22 and goes further to recommend that even 22 is limited. The reason for this is that recoil creates significant strain with repetitive impact on the growth points of all the bones in the arm and hands. This in turn can, and has in the past, lead to permenant damage.

There is no disrespect in air pistol shooting, and shooter who take this route usually progress faster and further later on. If rapid fire is a dream there there is now an air pistol rapid fire event. In fact to hit the 10 ring AP has a margin of error of +- 0.0458 degrees compared the precision .22 which has a margin off +- 0.0637 degrees


JY

JulianY wrote:If rapid fire is a dream ther there is now an airpistol rapid fire event.

Unfortunately not on "scoring ring" targets, at least under ISSF rules, only on falling targets.

We do shoot a 10m version of the RF match here in the UK but it is purely under "local rules". I personally feel the ISSF are fighting against introducing a 10m version of the 25m event for fear of losing the .22 event from the Olympics.

torontogunguy wrote: ...
There are also a pair of Walthers for sale on gunbroker.com.... any comments on the Walthers for target shooting?
...

Walther GSP .32? An old workhorse. It may lack some in ergonomics and looks compared to the FAS, but it reigns in reliability.
A Walther .32 is about as un-outwear-able as it gets.

The center of gravity is a bit far up front for the GSP. The older trigger units left some to be desired. Newer units somewhat better, though.
The grips of the GSP can preferably be exchanged for better ones.

David Levene wrote: I personally feel the ISSF are fighting against
introducing a 10m version of the 25m event for fear of losing the .22 event from the Olympics.

David

Probably very true, but the sadly the cost of range equipment and the space required for 25m rapid fire are substantial compare with any other event.

Julian

Murray,
Collyn Loper is also blind in her primary eye, and does very well in trap, which requires much more depth perception
http://collynloper.com/about.html
She finished 4th in the Athens Olympics.


I bet you take your son to some airpistol events where he gets his ass kicked by other male airpistol shooters, he will see how much testosterone is really needed. It's about shooting bullseyes, not about bang. Get him hooked up with some of the Canadian coaches/team members, he may catch the fever. I know several of them are planing on coming down the US nationals in June.

regards
Scott

JulianY wrote:There is no disrespect in air pistol shooting, and shooter who take this route usually progress faster and further later on. If rapid fire is a dream there there is now an air pistol rapid fire event. In fact to hit the 10 ring AP has a margin of error of +- 0.0458 degrees compared the precision .22 which has a margin off +- 0.0637 degrees

I believe you need to take the 25m precision target out to 40m to be equivalent to an air pistol target at 10m. I wonder if the x ring on the precision target is equivalent at 25m.

Given how many people are "crossover" between 2700 bullseye and international, I am surprised to have seen nothing of the 32 WC in the 1911. That would be very durable, to be sure. If one is a die-hard 2700 shooter, ergonomics would be settled. You'll never find a more "committed-to-one-gun" shooter than a hard core 1911 shooter. Dave Salyer, who is a regular contributor at the Bullseye L-Forum and at www.bullseyepistol.com, built up some 1911s to shoot the .30 luger. The barrels were made by Bar-Sto on special order, I recall. The gun was converted from a 9mm. It performed very well at the 50yd line. The recoil and blast was a bit more than a 32 but noticeably less than the 38WC. The reliability was great, due to a combination of the fine 1911 design and the bottle-neck profile of the cartridge.
By the way, there is an interesting photo of a Ruger MKI converted to 32WC in George Nonte's book "Pistolsmithing".