TargetTalk

It THIS sport we dont go running around playing soldiers filling cylinders in ten seconds. We think about what we are doing and generally have some common sense.

Naah...

TenMetrePeter wrote:It THIS sport we dont go running around playing soldiers filling cylinders in ten seconds. We think about what we are doing and generally have some common sense.

And I'm just saying that "generally" doesn't mean universally. At least one dangerous fill incident has been described in this thread.

Feel free to continue doing it by hand and assuming the risk is low enough for you. I'm only providing info that if it was desired, the target shooting community or individuals could adopt safer and more foolproof standards.

Maybe I'm reading more hostility in your responses to me than you intend.

TenMetrePeter wrote:We think about what we are doing and generally have some common sense.

Really!?

Who in their right mind would stay put for an 1h30m or 1h45m trying to hit consecutively an 11mm bull at 10 meters or a 50mm bull at 50 meters!? ;)

RF shooters on the other hand are a lot impatient... 4 seconds for 5 shoots on five diferente targets!? Why? (Because it's fun!)

Don't even get me started on the rifle guys... ;)

And then there's Rover! (sorry couldn't resist! :D)

SlartyBartFast wrote:I don't like trusting my life and limb to people having "common" sense or being "normally" sane.

So, you don't go out in public or drive a car then? Because if you don't trust anyone to have common sense or be normally sane you should stay home in a box of cotton wool.

j-team wrote:So, you don't go out in public or drive a car then? Because if you don't trust anyone to have common sense or be normally sane you should stay home in a box of cotton wool.

Now we're building strawman arguments?

No I don't blindly trust others to drive. I keep my wits about me and keep drivers under close watch.
And society doesn't blindly trust drivers either. Cars are built to standards and keeping your licence requires you following the rules of the road.

To keep more on topic for the forum, should I trust my life and limb to people having "common" sense or being "normally" sane and let anyone in the gun club manipulate, clean, or show their pistols and rifles anywhere in the club? Because as it is, they only get to be out of their cases at the firing line, or on the work bench with muzzles pointing at the cement walls.

SlartyBartFast, do you even own a PCP 10m air pistol?

sparky wrote:SlartyBartFast, do you even own a PCP 10m air pistol?

I think some of this personal questioning could be best taken to PMs. But as the question is posed publically, I'll answer here.

I use the air pistols and rifles at the club. No I don't own one. I've seen the questionable way some members behave or treat safety and equipment and wouldn't feel comfortable with them handling HPA unsupervised.

I had a lot of experience with the HPA tanks in paintball. And, I'll add, I have an engineering degree and write maintenance and operations procedures for mechanical equipment for a living. I've seen what experienced people can do when trying to take shortcuts cracking valves and avoiding the proper equipment.

Any HPA technician you talk to would have little to no experience with AR or AP. Doesn't change the validity of what I have said or what they would say.

The other thing is, I post to discuss, share what I know and see what I can learn. So if there's something that I'm missing or have wrong feel free to bring it up. To insinuate I'm not worthy or my experience and knowledge can be dismissed because I might suggest an unworthy sport like paintball might have something to teach the target shooting world is turning the discussion to an ad hominem.

SlartyBartFast wrote: Because as it is, they only get to be out of their cases at the firing line, or on the work bench with muzzles pointing at the cement walls.

Do you know how dangerous pointing a gun at a cement wall can be! That wall should be lined with at least 2" of soft timber to prevent any possible ricochets!

j-team wrote:

SlartyBartFast wrote: Because as it is, they only get to be out of their cases at the firing line, or on the work bench with muzzles pointing at the cement walls.

Do you know how dangerous pointing a gun at a cement wall can be! That wall should be lined with at least 2" of soft timber to prevent any possible ricochets!

Undoubtedly a very good point. But at that point I think the reason is to protect everyone else at the club. Not so much the person handling a gun that shouldn't have ammunition anywhere near it.

Honestly, the few clubs I've been to seem to have been the same. Don't know if the fact it's cinder block makes a difference...

Gort wrote:I have been around scuba and oxygen tanks for 50 years, the only failure that I have seen, a tank that was in a fire. Scuba and oxygen tanks all have a ten year pressure test requirement.

Off topic, sorry: Don't know about O2 tanks, but scuba cylinders have a 5 year DOT-mandated hydro requirement.

To the OP: Wouldn't a new cylinder and an adapter be the easiest route to take? Speccing it out and having it machined might be a bit of a PITA, but it will be a once in ten year kind of thing, so...

jky

SlartyBartFast wrote:

sparky wrote:SlartyBartFast, do you even own a PCP 10m air pistol?

I think some of this personal questioning could be best taken to PMs. But as the question is posed publically, I'll answer here.

I use the air pistols and rifles at the club. No I don't own one. I've seen the questionable way some members behave or treat safety and equipment and wouldn't feel comfortable with them handling HPA unsupervised.

I had a lot of experience with the HPA tanks in paintball. And, I'll add, I have an engineering degree and write maintenance and operations procedures for mechanical equipment for a living. I've seen what experienced people can do when trying to take shortcuts cracking valves and avoiding the proper equipment.

Any HPA technician you talk to would have little to no experience with AR or AP. Doesn't change the validity of what I have said or what they would say.

The other thing is, I post to discuss, share what I know and see what I can learn. So if there's something that I'm missing or have wrong feel free to bring it up. To insinuate I'm not worthy or my experience and knowledge can be dismissed because I might suggest an unworthy sport like paintball might have something to teach the target shooting world is turning the discussion to an ad hominem.

All this is making me think twice about upgrading from my Izzie (which is working perfectly, knock on wood) to my first PCP, because I know absolutely nothing about compressed air, or scuba tanks, and would not know where to turn to learn about them. I had thought about a Hill manual pump, but at 77, and a couple of heart attacks under my belt, maybe that is not the best idea either. Am I being overly nervous?

ED. If you like shooting air pistols then jump on in and test the waters. If you ever shoot a sixty or thirty shot match with your izzy. When you get done you will think this is a bit redundant!!! And I own a FWB102,65,80 and 90. Cranking is of for practice. Time to gun up!!!

PFribley wrote:ED. If you like shooting air pistols then jump on in and test the waters. If you ever shoot a sixty or thirty shot match with your izzy. When you get done you will think this is a bit redundant!!! And I own a FWB102,65,80 and 90. Cranking is of for practice. Time to gun up!!!

I shoot 60 shot matches monthly, and practice in my basement with 60 shots routinely. Not a matter of running out of steam with the Izzy (although I will say that cranking the lever for every shot is definitely a factor with my FWB 602, I wasn't remotely in the running at the one match I tried with that). Although I have managed a number of over 500 scores at home, I have yet to break 500 in a match, 499 at the last one. So I guess I do not believe I am 'worthy' of a pcp at this point.

Rover wrote:OK guys, has any of you heard of a SINGLE burst cylinder?

I know of two incidents involving air cylinders that demonstrate the destructive potential of this type of equipment.
The first is the SCUBA shop that used to support our dive trips in Mexico. As the Divemaster for our trip I was directed to refill our tanks at a different shop. On the way there I drove by the shop that used to fill our tanks. I was very surprised to see that 75% of the CMU (cinder block) and concrete building was destroyed and leveled to the ground. My boss told me that the previous month a tank failed while being filled. Two people were severely injured and the business was a total loss. The damage was devastating.
The second incident is slightly off topic but illustrates the serious danger associated with these cylinders. A youth airgun team was changing the cylinders on one of their air rifles to be refilled. This is a team known for producing National level champion results and not a bunch of novices. The check-valve in the cylinder did not close when it was being threaded off the rifle and the cylinder left the rifle with enough force to go thru the ceiling and roof of a commercial building. The Captain went up on the roof and inspected the surrounding grounds and parking lot and never found the cylinder. His quote to me was, "as far as I know, it is still in orbit."
I know these are slightly off your question, but I do get why there is a concern about their safety.
I remember one of the Mythbusters actors remarking that the insurance company kept asking about their safety protocols about the explosives and his response was, "you really ought to be more concerned about the compressed gasses."

It is too bad there is not enough market to simply hydro the cylinders and re-certify them they way SCUBA tanks and Propane tanks can be inspected and kept in use. This is an example of our disposable society and the 'just by new' solution.

"I have yet to break 500 in a match, 499 at the last one. So I guess I do not believe I am 'worthy' of a pcp at this point."

You're perfectly 'worthy' of a PCP. I'm not sure you're worthy of a SSP.

Have you done the right things....trigger adjust, grip fitting, sight tweaking, shooting glasses, exercise, intensive dry firing, holding your mouth right, beer?

I shoot both PCP and SSP; scores are the same. But, you're right....you don't need to be messing with compressed air.

Rover wrote:"I <snip>
Have you done the right things....trigger adjust, grip fitting, sight tweaking, shooting glasses, exercise, intensive dry firing, holding your mouth right, beer?
<snip>...

Some, but not all, and who is to say the things I have done were done rightly? :<)

Here's some interesting info about "sustained load cracking":

SLC is a very slow progressing process. Government findings on a ruptured scuba cylinder showed two cracks had progressed, one over 8.7 and the other 9.3 years. For this reason the DOT specifies all cylinders made from 6351 alloy be carefully inspected by trained inspectors (DOT recommends PSI-PCI, Inc inspector training) with special attention given to the threaded neck area.

This is from http://http://www.psicylinders.com/inspectors/ ... -cylinders

Who knows what alloy is used in PCP cylinders? Rhetorical question.