TargetTalk

Muffo wrote:

David Levene wrote:

Muffo wrote:I was using that example because that's how it is shot in Australia.

That's fine, but it's a local variation, nothing to do with the ISSF.

If you have a local variation to allow 10 shots per target and a forced break then it's easy to have another one to allow extra time.

You can't expect the ISSF to take local variations into account when writing their rules.

My point is the same as yours the rules are made for electric targets. If we are using paper targets then we work around those rules. Plus I couldn't see how using paper targets broke the rules

Yes Australia has a different version of the rules for 50m, but if you were to compete at SISC in Sydney at an Aus Cup the ISSF rules would be used.

The same would apply in Brisbane for 50 at BIPC and I beleive that MISC has electronic Air range, thus the rules would/should apply there if PA adopt the rules.

I do think this is one thing that Spencer could advise on though!

Cheers
Brad

AUS pistol events are shot to ISSF rules where the appropriate targetry is available (as Brad states: the 2000 Olympics range at SISC, 50 & 10m at MISC, and 50m Pit Marking at Belmont).
For the rest (i.e. on paper targets) we have 'Australian Regulations' to allow events to be conducted as close as possible to full ISSF rules:
- 50m Pistol on fixed paper targets - 6x10-shot series targets changed after each 10 shots; Finals scored after each shot
- RFP Finals scored after each series is completed by all six Finalists

what shorten the time, is really that boring?

in the finals does the two series of 3 shots getting added to the 2 shot elimination score? so everyone has to shoot 6 shots then being the 2 shot per round elimination?

Yesterday evening i made 40 rounds match, from start 10minutes were used for sighting, and approx 15min every 10 shoots, plus 5 min free at the rest of the match (i used it for the last shot). The time is completely gone.

I'm a bit worried by a time reduction.

BenEnglishTX wrote: What's the goal here? Why the need to change and become more telegenic? I've just always accepted that some sports are for participants, not spectators. How can you tell the experienced spectators at dressage events? They're the ones with an apple and a knife...because cutting an apple in half and watching it turn brown is way more exciting than watching dressage.

They're concerned with the Olympics. The Olympics is a "sporting spectacle" paid for by sponsors.
Sponsors sponsor on the basis they will receive advertising and recognition. There is no place for participation events at a "Spectacle". The Olympic Ideal is all very well, but really it's all for the spectators, not the athletes. It's a form of entertainment, just like TV, funded by the advertising.

Ergo, for sports to earn their place at the Olympics they need to cement their position as media friendly and be seen as worthwhile events that will get decent viewing figures, otherwise they are spending a lot of money on venues that the sponsors have no interest in funding.

The beauty of multi-sport Games like the Olympics is sponsors don't get to pick and choose, which is why "small sports" are viable at all and all the funding doesn't go on a solid gold, diamond encrusted athletics stadium. Nevertheless, those sports with lower viewing figures need to be seen to be doing their bit to earn their keep.

You can argue the rights and wrongs of commercialisation in general, but right now, that's the cold hard reality of the matter.
Rifle and Pistol are not great spectator sports, and the ISSF are trying to improve that. I personally think they're going down the wrong route, but hey, what do I know? I'm just a sportsman which puts me into the minority who enjoy the participation over the spectacle.

It brings more challenges for participants and it will makes this sport more exited to watch.
Get yourself properly fit to a new challenge. Take a look at you weaknesses; create the plan to overcome them. Education will become a big part of your preparation plan. Cut your "tea brakes". Invest time to The Fitness program in order to develop your stamina and work hard ALL 75 minutes AP and 90 minutes in Free (50 meter) pistol program.

Russ wrote: It brings more challenges for participants and it will makes this sport more exited to watch.
Get yourself properly fit to a new challenge. Take a look at you weaknesses; create the plan to overcome them. Education will become a big part of your preparation plan. Cut your "tea brakes". Invest time to The Fitness program in order to develop your stamina and work hard ALL 75 minutes AP and 90 minutes in Free (50 meter) pistol program.

I see this as a good thing, people will have to be fitter to be able to compete because we will have to cut out the breaks

Y'know, if we're just going to embrace this spectacle model instead of the sport model, some nice folks have already got a working idea for biathlon that we could adopt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqb1YSSdeZA

Since I started practice Olympic pistol in 1977 a lot of things came to change regarding of information, ease and availability of new equipment, new advance models of Olympic style pistols and rifles.
Only mindset of participant didn’t come to change. :(
I’m glad that some people start adopting yourself to the new reality.
At this point some people will finally realize what they need to do. Keep working in their old pattern or change the game plan.

Russ wrote:At this point some people will finally realize what they need to do.

I need to work to earn money to pay bills. I need to look after my family. I need air, water, food and shelter.

I don't need to take on financial debt, spend more time in the gym, and throw away the core principals of the sport I love, all so that ISSF can try (and fail) to convince advertisers (who are more interested in T&A and violence than they are in sport) to buy time on NBC.

I don't want to do so either, but I bloody well know I don't need to.

It is not a problem. Some people will enjoy Recreational Olympic shooting and some people will enjoy Competitive Olympic shooting where the fitness program is and stress management will be part of the game as well.
Forum is not educational source but informational. Forum is perfect vehicle for recreational activities only, where "The Fun” is major part of it.

Competitive Olympic pistol program is a different thing. To be part of it you have to Invest you time in Education and Fitness, not only in equipment as many did before!

Russ wrote:It is not a problem. Some people will enjoy Recreational Olympic shooting and some people will enjoy Competitive Olympic shooting

Ignoring the point that that's the deathknell for the sport right there, there is the point you didn't address:

Sparks wrote:throw away the core principals of the sport

And there's also the point that we're not mentioning explicitly, namely, why should we change what we love to do because the current people sitting at the ISSF top table decide we should without consultation with actual shooters? This is our sport (and by our I include the ISSF top table btw), not just their sport and if we're going to change its fundamental nature and character, it shouldn't be by diktat from a relatively anonymous group in a closed decision making process.

My friend, The New reality is that: if someone in his 60’s accomplished only 8 hours class with me and able to climb up to the level of 570 AP (Practice score) in 2,5 months is not a miracle, but just new set of knowledge.
His example not a single thing, I have other guys from this forum that made similar accomplishments.

They have only one regret that they spent TOO MANY years been blinded by the common misconceptions adopted by reading anonymous posts.

In the Australian interpretation for 50m pistol in regional and local competitions where there may be only 30 competitors shooting the event, minimal personnel and certainly no electronic targets or pit changing, it is reasonable to have 1 x 30-minute series then 5 x 18-minute series with 10 scoring shots in each.

Although most shooters complete their 10 shots well inside the 18 minutes, there are some who take nearly all the time if they are struggling with technique, need to re-group their thoughts, etc.

I assume that the new format for minor competitions where we have to change targets every 10 shots will be 7 x 15 minute series (the first one being a sighting series). There won't be much time for preparing each of the 10 shots in 15 minutes.

Even under ISSF conditions, competitors will have to fire each shot in under an average of about 75 seconds for the whole 90 minutes. (eg. after a shot breaks, call the shot, lower the pistol, check the fall of shot, empty the chamber, reload, cock the action, gather thoughts, raise pistol into the aiming area then 10 seconds later, shot breaks - if all goes to plan. This takes about 45 seconds at a leisurely pace. A cancelled shot will take another 30 seconds to get away. Time will be tight!

These new rules introduce a "time" factor into this event. I always regarded this event (from the old 2-1/2 hour Free Pistol days) as the purest form of pistol shooting where there was virtually unlimited time and the event was just about the shooter, the pistol and the ammunition - 3 main variables. Now there are 4!

I would like to know the ISSF's rationale behind making the changes to shooting times. Surely it doesn't make the event any more viewable by general public TV audiences.

Russ wrote:My friend, The New reality is that: if someone in his 60’s accomplished only 8 hours class with me and able to climb up to the level of 570 AP (Practice score) in 2,5 months is not a miracle, but just new set of knowledge.
His example not a single thing, I have other guys from this forum that made similar accomplishments.

They have only one regret that they spent TOO MANY years been blinded by the common misconceptions adopted by reading anonymous posts.

Chet? Is that you? :D

Nope. We had this conversation with you not a long time ago. Check your records. :)
http://www.midwestshootingacademy.com/events.shtml

http://midwestacademyconsulting.wordpress.com/video/
I’m sorry for unprofessional video. It was shot by 10 years old boy. ;)

Russ wrote:Nope. We had this conversation with you not a long time ago. Check your records. :)

Yeah, and I still stand by what I said then...

It is free country you can say whatever you want. But You can Choose to stay in recreational part of performance or become a part of competitive development. Time is up. :)
It is only a general idea. I do not have any intention to promote my class. It is just a new reality.

Russ wrote:But You can Choose to stay in recreational part of performance or become a part of competitive development.

I believe your position on this is severely lacking foresight and is damaging to the sport in the long term.