Shoulder to shoulder is good if there is a club in your area but it limits you significantly if there are no clubs in your area, if you move from one place to the other often...or more so if you want to compete outside your area.
An example:
Lets say you move outside of a city, and there are no gun clubs. You've been shooting NRA all your life. The nearest club is 1.5 hours away and it's all powder burners. I guess you might as well give up AP or AR.
Another:
Lets say you have little time and money and the nearest range is close but costs $500 a year for membership. They offer no AR or AP events and are mostly defensive pistol/PPC/ whatever. You can join but who are you going to shoot against?
Another:
You move to the middle of no where because that's where you found a job out of school. In the middle of no where, there's hunting and a large support for "zeroing" you hunting rifle but AP and AR's are things for 8 year olds and should cost under $50.
In looking at how many youths participate in air rifle and air pistol, I can not beleive that at 18 or 21 the desire "shuts off" or they all move to small bore or some other dicipline.
Another:
You are 18 you are in college, the team at that college is filled with scholarship shooters. There are no walk-ons, I mean maybe you get a little time to shoot but the focus isn't you or your development as a shooter...it's for the team to win and continue winning.
Another:
I shoot bullseye at a club "shoulder to shoulder", we are in an intercounty league. Every year it's nearly the same people, I'm always 3rd or 4th. Now unless someone moves into my area or I drive over 2 hours...I really have no way to compete with anyone else save the postal matches. The NRA has a postal match...and that's cool...but again...it's not air pistol or air rifle.
The High Noon match is a perfect example, by participating in that match, I'm competing against some really good guys and gals all over the world.
The downside is it doesn't really do much for my NRA ranking, doesn't qualify for Distinguished Expert or master score...because it's not an NRA sanctioned event.
But again the last point is, why does the NRA drop these kids at 18 or so? There's enough interest in a postal match run out of Polland, don't you think there would be enough interest in a postal match run by the NRA for AP or AR? Heck they have a built in audience and participation base of what, millions of member/ shooters? I know in many of the "powerder burning" sports airuns are sort of a joke...but the educated shooter knows, pound for pound airguns are nearly if not THE most accurate guns in the world.
Ahhh I just wish the NRA would allow my club to sponsor postal matches or start one of their own open to everyone for AP and AR.
.49331.49328
An NRA rant
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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Len
You are proving my point
You have to find it, there aren't enough locations...all the more reason for the NRA to sponsor an open air pistol and air rifle postal match.
With the open postal, you DON'T have to find a place, you don't have to be a member of a range or group. Each basement, hallway, livingroom to dining room, garage IS the range.
You get to compete against people from all over, it counts towards your NRA "rankings" and qualifications...and if fosters the shooting sports by allowing for marksmanship almost anywhere you can hang a target, get a safe backstop and count off 33'. Schedules and match directors need not pertain or apply. Submit your score by x date and pay the fee is the only burden. It doesn't get any easier than that.
.49332.49327
With the open postal, you DON'T have to find a place, you don't have to be a member of a range or group. Each basement, hallway, livingroom to dining room, garage IS the range.
You get to compete against people from all over, it counts towards your NRA "rankings" and qualifications...and if fosters the shooting sports by allowing for marksmanship almost anywhere you can hang a target, get a safe backstop and count off 33'. Schedules and match directors need not pertain or apply. Submit your score by x date and pay the fee is the only burden. It doesn't get any easier than that.
.49332.49327
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Cecil
Comments?
As the others have stated, they are moving into the adult world where unfortunatly we train alone, travel long distances to matches, have to actually work to put on the matches, and basically do all the other things that were done for them previoulsy. That's right, its time to, rightly or wrongly, to start paying some back.
If you want a match, you can design your own and get NRA approval. (OR THEY CAN, which is more to the point.) It's that easy. As a matter of fact you can even specify who can compete. See rule 1.6 (from Conventional Pistol but should be consistent throughout the books). If I have to set up and get my matches approved, why should you be any different? NRA sure doesn't do my promotion, printing or setting up the match for me.
As for the "male concentric", well I guess that could be an interpretation from the fact that at least for Conventional Pistol WE all shoot side by side for the awards. I would rather state that it "shooter concentric" and you stand on the basis (overall) on your own performance regardless of sex, etc.
Sorry, but welcome to the transition. They can't just show up at the range and shoot anymore; matches and competition are a lot more than that. It takes the effort of a lot of non-shooting members to put on a match or competition. Guess they will have to step up and pitch in.
(Just for your info, I am the person that gets the paperwork approved, stages, calls, coordinates, directs, administers, scores, submits, recoreds, mailout results and trys to get help for my clubs pistol matches each year.)
Cecil
.49333.49297
If you want a match, you can design your own and get NRA approval. (OR THEY CAN, which is more to the point.) It's that easy. As a matter of fact you can even specify who can compete. See rule 1.6 (from Conventional Pistol but should be consistent throughout the books). If I have to set up and get my matches approved, why should you be any different? NRA sure doesn't do my promotion, printing or setting up the match for me.
As for the "male concentric", well I guess that could be an interpretation from the fact that at least for Conventional Pistol WE all shoot side by side for the awards. I would rather state that it "shooter concentric" and you stand on the basis (overall) on your own performance regardless of sex, etc.
Sorry, but welcome to the transition. They can't just show up at the range and shoot anymore; matches and competition are a lot more than that. It takes the effort of a lot of non-shooting members to put on a match or competition. Guess they will have to step up and pitch in.
(Just for your info, I am the person that gets the paperwork approved, stages, calls, coordinates, directs, administers, scores, submits, recoreds, mailout results and trys to get help for my clubs pistol matches each year.)
Cecil
.49333.49297
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Sandy Santibanez
Re: An NRA rant
: : USAS may do great things for juniors, but as an adult, I think the only interest they have in me is my money.
(My reply) Tell me,what exorbitant fees have you been charged by USAS? $35 a year membership and $6 per match for maintaing records and overhead. An iterest in money only? Get real, it is not only money.
-------------------------
: ...You have to remember what the interest is for USAS. They are the Olympic shooting orgainzation for the US. They don't care anything about old coots who won't be shooting perfect because their back spasms and their Real JOBS keep them from practising 5 hours a day in Colorado Springs.
--------------------------------
(My reply) Baloney, you sound like an old curmudgeon. Five hours a day will give you back spasms, even if you were able to live in Colorado Springs. Old coots, young kids or real JOBS is not the issue. Get real, go to matches and shoot the best you can. Accept the aging process.
I have USAS sanctioned matches every month. Although we have a very small club, our youngest shooter is under 14 and some our oldest are in their late 60s. Their abilities range from novice to Olympians. It includes a world record holder, a 16 year old Development Team member and a National Team member. Come shoot with us, we have a great time.
USAS has one primary goal, Olympic medals, so shoulder to shoulder competitions is what it is all about. NO PATCH COLLECTING, just on the line competition for personal pleasure and satisfaction or to prepare for the biggest game there is, the Olympics.
It is not a perfect world. There is always room for improvement, but considering the funding problems that USAS has they are doing a pretty good job with what they have to work with. I support them with my money, time and effort so that we can send americans to the Summer Games.
There are those that if you gave them the world they would complain if it did not include a white picket fence around it.
Mike, my apologies to you and all the others, but this is my reply to what I feel are unwarrented and unjustified rants rants on this board.
tenx-at-san.rr.com.49334.49319
(My reply) Tell me,what exorbitant fees have you been charged by USAS? $35 a year membership and $6 per match for maintaing records and overhead. An iterest in money only? Get real, it is not only money.
-------------------------
: ...You have to remember what the interest is for USAS. They are the Olympic shooting orgainzation for the US. They don't care anything about old coots who won't be shooting perfect because their back spasms and their Real JOBS keep them from practising 5 hours a day in Colorado Springs.
--------------------------------
(My reply) Baloney, you sound like an old curmudgeon. Five hours a day will give you back spasms, even if you were able to live in Colorado Springs. Old coots, young kids or real JOBS is not the issue. Get real, go to matches and shoot the best you can. Accept the aging process.
I have USAS sanctioned matches every month. Although we have a very small club, our youngest shooter is under 14 and some our oldest are in their late 60s. Their abilities range from novice to Olympians. It includes a world record holder, a 16 year old Development Team member and a National Team member. Come shoot with us, we have a great time.
USAS has one primary goal, Olympic medals, so shoulder to shoulder competitions is what it is all about. NO PATCH COLLECTING, just on the line competition for personal pleasure and satisfaction or to prepare for the biggest game there is, the Olympics.
It is not a perfect world. There is always room for improvement, but considering the funding problems that USAS has they are doing a pretty good job with what they have to work with. I support them with my money, time and effort so that we can send americans to the Summer Games.
There are those that if you gave them the world they would complain if it did not include a white picket fence around it.
Mike, my apologies to you and all the others, but this is my reply to what I feel are unwarrented and unjustified rants rants on this board.
tenx-at-san.rr.com.49334.49319
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Mack
Re: An NRA rant
Here is a NRA AP postal that is a lot of fun.
www.expage.com/airpistolcompetition
: This may be a bit off but here it goes:
: I have a group of shooters that are moving on out of junior to adult shooting. There are about 9 females and 17 males. Some are going to college, some are going to work, some are going into the military, and I'm not sure what some of them plan to do.
: They have "come up" in the ranks of NRA shooters, grown up with the various rules and regulations, the rifle classes, lived with the differences between USAS, ISSF and the NRA, and many have invested not only money in NRA memberships, patches, and programs, but most of all they have invested their time to garner the rankings they have.
: Now I'm not sure what shooting oppertunites will present themselves to these fine yound adults, but it does seem the NRA has no real interest in fostering their further development.
: I've been calling around, and e-mailing various people in the NRA for a better part of the week trying to find or establish an NRA program that all of these shooters can participate in, only to find there really is none. At first I thought it would be simple, all these young adults could shoot air rifle, air pistol, or sporter AR via a NRA postal match...well guess what, there are no NRA postal matches for young adults. The NRA has Junior shooter, Royal Ranger, BSA, 4-H, Order of DeMolay but nothing that would allow these young adults that are moving from junior shooters to adult to compete against their peers and shooting partners across the US, whereever they may be. What's worse is I've offered to do the work, sponsor the program via money and or effort only to be told that "Postal Matches are established, and individuals or clubs enter" but the ones that are "established" are not for any of my shooters and evidently there is no "establishing" more or other postal matches. The postal matches that are "established" don't even cover the full range of diciplines and certainly are more male centric than anything else. Certainly if you are Boy Scout, a member of the Order of DeMolay, a Royal Ranger, in the JROTC, 4-H, or under 18, 21 or 15 as the case may be, or shoot one or two diciplins but certainly not air rifle or air pistol, you have a postal match availible to you but that's pretty much where it ends.
: So now I am faced with telling these fine students of marksmanship, the NRA really only cares about you if you are younger, if you are male, or if you belong to some obscure christian group...but past that...good luck finding NRA sponsored or sanctioned postal matches if you are not one of the above. You certainly WILL NOT be able to compete against each other in an NRA postal match in AR or AP as adults, becasue the NRA doesn't offer them nor does it seem interested in starting one.
: I must say I am saddened and sorry that we have wasted the time and effort with these NRA programs, I know know that unless the NRA resolves this glaring hole in their program support system for up and coming shooters, the answer is to start off as a USAS club and shooter and ignore the NRA programs entirely.
: Certainly you may disagree and if the information that was provided to my by the people at the NRA who run these programs is wrong, please show the error and point me in the right direction. I am essentially interested in allowing now "adult" shooters to compete in an NRA sanctioned postal match in AR (sporter or precision) and AP airgun, with no real regard for their location, religious affiliation, group membership (or lack there of), sex, color, or anything else except that they are NRA shooters, shooing some form of airgun and are interested in continuing on in getting their qualifications.
: Rant over, flame away.
.49335.49297
www.expage.com/airpistolcompetition
: This may be a bit off but here it goes:
: I have a group of shooters that are moving on out of junior to adult shooting. There are about 9 females and 17 males. Some are going to college, some are going to work, some are going into the military, and I'm not sure what some of them plan to do.
: They have "come up" in the ranks of NRA shooters, grown up with the various rules and regulations, the rifle classes, lived with the differences between USAS, ISSF and the NRA, and many have invested not only money in NRA memberships, patches, and programs, but most of all they have invested their time to garner the rankings they have.
: Now I'm not sure what shooting oppertunites will present themselves to these fine yound adults, but it does seem the NRA has no real interest in fostering their further development.
: I've been calling around, and e-mailing various people in the NRA for a better part of the week trying to find or establish an NRA program that all of these shooters can participate in, only to find there really is none. At first I thought it would be simple, all these young adults could shoot air rifle, air pistol, or sporter AR via a NRA postal match...well guess what, there are no NRA postal matches for young adults. The NRA has Junior shooter, Royal Ranger, BSA, 4-H, Order of DeMolay but nothing that would allow these young adults that are moving from junior shooters to adult to compete against their peers and shooting partners across the US, whereever they may be. What's worse is I've offered to do the work, sponsor the program via money and or effort only to be told that "Postal Matches are established, and individuals or clubs enter" but the ones that are "established" are not for any of my shooters and evidently there is no "establishing" more or other postal matches. The postal matches that are "established" don't even cover the full range of diciplines and certainly are more male centric than anything else. Certainly if you are Boy Scout, a member of the Order of DeMolay, a Royal Ranger, in the JROTC, 4-H, or under 18, 21 or 15 as the case may be, or shoot one or two diciplins but certainly not air rifle or air pistol, you have a postal match availible to you but that's pretty much where it ends.
: So now I am faced with telling these fine students of marksmanship, the NRA really only cares about you if you are younger, if you are male, or if you belong to some obscure christian group...but past that...good luck finding NRA sponsored or sanctioned postal matches if you are not one of the above. You certainly WILL NOT be able to compete against each other in an NRA postal match in AR or AP as adults, becasue the NRA doesn't offer them nor does it seem interested in starting one.
: I must say I am saddened and sorry that we have wasted the time and effort with these NRA programs, I know know that unless the NRA resolves this glaring hole in their program support system for up and coming shooters, the answer is to start off as a USAS club and shooter and ignore the NRA programs entirely.
: Certainly you may disagree and if the information that was provided to my by the people at the NRA who run these programs is wrong, please show the error and point me in the right direction. I am essentially interested in allowing now "adult" shooters to compete in an NRA sanctioned postal match in AR (sporter or precision) and AP airgun, with no real regard for their location, religious affiliation, group membership (or lack there of), sex, color, or anything else except that they are NRA shooters, shooing some form of airgun and are interested in continuing on in getting their qualifications.
: Rant over, flame away.
.49335.49297
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Len
Re: An NRA rant
It's not that complicated.
People want to shoot, let them shoot, make it as easy for them to shoot and compete against each other.
To equate improving skill to "collecting patches" really is against the spirit of the issue.
That's the way some of the programs are set up, so that's the way it is.
It's like saying USAS is really about just collecting medals.
.49336.49334
People want to shoot, let them shoot, make it as easy for them to shoot and compete against each other.
To equate improving skill to "collecting patches" really is against the spirit of the issue.
That's the way some of the programs are set up, so that's the way it is.
It's like saying USAS is really about just collecting medals.
.49336.49334
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Mike Schroeder
Re: Transitioning to adulthood
...The nearest club is 1.5 hours away and it's all powder burners. I guess you might as well give up AP or AR.
: In looking at how many youths participate in air rifle and air pistol, I can not beleive that at 18 or 21 the desire "shuts off" or they all move to small bore or some other dicipline....
..... O.K. NOW I understand, you want to shoot Air Rifle and Air Pistol, I thought you were only a little bent because all of the "it's for the youth" part went away. Sorry, just didn't get it until this post. Actually MOST do move on to some other discipline. Until last week, I shot in the basement as practice. Stock broke in half on the 753 Avanti. Daisy doesn't know yet.
Here, some of the matches allow adults to shoot. Don't know how many. I'll try and make sure that they are allowed to shoot in the future. I'm Range Officer on Saturday, so maybe I'll be getting a little input.
: Ahhh I just wish the NRA would allow my club to sponsor postal matches or start one of their own open to everyone for AP and AR.
No arguement here.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49337.49331
: In looking at how many youths participate in air rifle and air pistol, I can not beleive that at 18 or 21 the desire "shuts off" or they all move to small bore or some other dicipline....
..... O.K. NOW I understand, you want to shoot Air Rifle and Air Pistol, I thought you were only a little bent because all of the "it's for the youth" part went away. Sorry, just didn't get it until this post. Actually MOST do move on to some other discipline. Until last week, I shot in the basement as practice. Stock broke in half on the 753 Avanti. Daisy doesn't know yet.
Here, some of the matches allow adults to shoot. Don't know how many. I'll try and make sure that they are allowed to shoot in the future. I'm Range Officer on Saturday, so maybe I'll be getting a little input.
: Ahhh I just wish the NRA would allow my club to sponsor postal matches or start one of their own open to everyone for AP and AR.
No arguement here.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49337.49331
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P.Lambertz
Re: An NRA rant
Jim Morrison with the Papio Air Gun Club, Papillion Nebraska also runs postals. I think you can have him turn the scores in to the NRA.
But I realize that's not really your point! You are right, Len, if you're not in an active club, or travel long distances, then in some parts of the USA, it's quite hard to find competitions for adults. The NRA *used to* run a lot more postals! [And award cool prizes - my goal was to win a charm bracelet from the Women's Postal (air rifle), and I did, just before they ended the matches (1980's).] So all they'd have to do is dig up thru the archives and revive some of those matches, with appropriate marketing efforts.
It's a chicken and egg scenario - they don't hold matches cause no one asks; no one asks cause there aren't any matches to ask about ...
I'll add an appeal to those kind people that work hard to run junior shoulder-to-shoulder matches: please sometimes, consider opening up some matches to adults! The kids are having all the fun! Here in Illinois, the junior program people are working like crazy, with much success to show for it, on running junior matches. Thru this winter, junior shooters could choose from nearly two matches a month. Yes, Len, they will be sorely disappointed when they become adult shooters and see the lack of choices. Hopefully, they will be eager and willing to join local clubs and help run more adult matches.
Over and over agin we hear that juniors are the shooting sports future - but I'm also afraid that by overlooking adults, we are just treading water.
: This may be a bit off but here it goes:
: I have a group of shooters that are moving on out of junior to adult shooting. There are about 9 females and 17 males. Some are going to college, some are going to work, some are going into the military, and I'm not sure what some of them plan to do.
: Now I'm not sure what shooting oppertunites will present themselves to these fine yound adults, but it does seem the NRA has no real interest in fostering their further development.
.49338.49297
But I realize that's not really your point! You are right, Len, if you're not in an active club, or travel long distances, then in some parts of the USA, it's quite hard to find competitions for adults. The NRA *used to* run a lot more postals! [And award cool prizes - my goal was to win a charm bracelet from the Women's Postal (air rifle), and I did, just before they ended the matches (1980's).] So all they'd have to do is dig up thru the archives and revive some of those matches, with appropriate marketing efforts.
It's a chicken and egg scenario - they don't hold matches cause no one asks; no one asks cause there aren't any matches to ask about ...
I'll add an appeal to those kind people that work hard to run junior shoulder-to-shoulder matches: please sometimes, consider opening up some matches to adults! The kids are having all the fun! Here in Illinois, the junior program people are working like crazy, with much success to show for it, on running junior matches. Thru this winter, junior shooters could choose from nearly two matches a month. Yes, Len, they will be sorely disappointed when they become adult shooters and see the lack of choices. Hopefully, they will be eager and willing to join local clubs and help run more adult matches.
Over and over agin we hear that juniors are the shooting sports future - but I'm also afraid that by overlooking adults, we are just treading water.
: This may be a bit off but here it goes:
: I have a group of shooters that are moving on out of junior to adult shooting. There are about 9 females and 17 males. Some are going to college, some are going to work, some are going into the military, and I'm not sure what some of them plan to do.
: Now I'm not sure what shooting oppertunites will present themselves to these fine yound adults, but it does seem the NRA has no real interest in fostering their further development.
.49338.49297
-
Mike Schroeder
Re: An NRA rant
: : ...You have to remember what the interest is for USAS. They are the Olympic shooting orgainzation for the US. They don't care anything about old coots who won't be shooting perfect because their back spasms and their Real JOBS keep them from practising 5 hours a day in Colorado Springs.
: --------------------------------
: (My reply) Baloney, ...Accept the aging process.
I do, I also accept the fact that the USAS is there for the Olympics, which as my point. Great that USAS also lets you sponsor matches and everyone can go, but THAT'S NOT why the USAS exists is all I'm saying.
: Mike, my apologies to you and all the others, but this is my reply to what I feel are unwarrented and unjustified rants rants on this board.
I apologize if I offended the USAS, not my point. They just have a purpose that doesn't focus on me (no biggie there).
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49339.49334
: --------------------------------
: (My reply) Baloney, ...Accept the aging process.
I do, I also accept the fact that the USAS is there for the Olympics, which as my point. Great that USAS also lets you sponsor matches and everyone can go, but THAT'S NOT why the USAS exists is all I'm saying.
: Mike, my apologies to you and all the others, but this is my reply to what I feel are unwarrented and unjustified rants rants on this board.
I apologize if I offended the USAS, not my point. They just have a purpose that doesn't focus on me (no biggie there).
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49339.49334
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Mike Schroeder
Re: Comments?
: (Just for your info, I am the person that gets the paperwork approved, stages, calls, coordinates, directs, administers, scores, submits, recoreds, mailout results and trys to get help for my clubs pistol matches each year.)
: Cecil
Hi Cecil
I'll post back after Saturday. I'm doing the Range Officer work for a 4-H Match. First time. I'll try and list out what went wrong and right later.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49340.49333
: Cecil
Hi Cecil
I'll post back after Saturday. I'm doing the Range Officer work for a 4-H Match. First time. I'll try and list out what went wrong and right later.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49340.49333
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Len
Re: Comments?
I am trying to get NRA Postal Matches set up for Air Pistol and Air Rifle, I am willing to do the work, the problem is the NRA says "there's no interest" and "postals are really only for kids"
"The concept was originally intended to provide junior participants an informal competition to enter after completion of a marksmanship-training program."
My thought is it's a great vehicle for ANYONE to compete informally and the NRA should foster that.
If they have people willing to volunteer their time, why not?
.49341.49333
"The concept was originally intended to provide junior participants an informal competition to enter after completion of a marksmanship-training program."
My thought is it's a great vehicle for ANYONE to compete informally and the NRA should foster that.
If they have people willing to volunteer their time, why not?
.49341.49333
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Cecil
Matches
It doesn't really matter what the NRA says. If you want a match, you submit a match that meets the criteria in the rule books, they approve or register and you have a match.
I think what they may be trying to say is that the NRA actually only puts on the Nationals, all other matches are by other organizations with NRA approval / register. They have nothing to do about your match after approval except for taking scores for classification and getting your check.
.49345.49341
I think what they may be trying to say is that the NRA actually only puts on the Nationals, all other matches are by other organizations with NRA approval / register. They have nothing to do about your match after approval except for taking scores for classification and getting your check.
.49345.49341
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Sandy Santibanez
Re: An NRA rant
: It's not that complicated.
: People want to shoot, let them shoot, make it as easy for them to shoot and compete against each other.
: To equate improving skill to "collecting patches" really is against the spirit of the issue.
: That's the way some of the programs are set up, so that's the way it is.
: It's like saying USAS is really about just collecting medals.
Yes, as a matter of fact that IS what USAS is all about. The USOC funding is based to a great extent on the winning of medals. USAS also is trying to develop a base from which to feed the National Team. Elite shooters do not just happen, they compete at matches (PTO's) like mine until they make the team. It takes time and effort to make the team but all men, women and juniors can and do compete at our matches.
tenx-at-san.rr.com.49346.49336
: People want to shoot, let them shoot, make it as easy for them to shoot and compete against each other.
: To equate improving skill to "collecting patches" really is against the spirit of the issue.
: That's the way some of the programs are set up, so that's the way it is.
: It's like saying USAS is really about just collecting medals.
Yes, as a matter of fact that IS what USAS is all about. The USOC funding is based to a great extent on the winning of medals. USAS also is trying to develop a base from which to feed the National Team. Elite shooters do not just happen, they compete at matches (PTO's) like mine until they make the team. It takes time and effort to make the team but all men, women and juniors can and do compete at our matches.
tenx-at-san.rr.com.49346.49336
-
Jim
Re: An NRA rant
Sorry if I offended anyone re: USAS. The point I was trying to make was simply in defense of the NRA. In my neck of the woods, they do an unmatched job making competitive shooting a grass roots experience at a number of clubs and with a variety of disciplines, from the local, to state, to national level. Also, their basic philosophy on competitive shooting is very much founded on the role of firearms in a free society. Yes, this is outside the mission of the USAS! Imagine what level international shooting would be in this country if we tapped into the competitive involvement directed to other disciplines.
Thanks,
Jim
PS: Regarding the old coot comment,I would like to point out that my opinions were not personally directed at anyone. Is that how we respond to a difference of opinion, with a personal attack?
james.buckland-at-converse.edu.49361.49319
Thanks,
Jim
PS: Regarding the old coot comment,I would like to point out that my opinions were not personally directed at anyone. Is that how we respond to a difference of opinion, with a personal attack?
james.buckland-at-converse.edu.49361.49319
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Len
The NRA is stopping me
I said I would do all the work, "sponsor" the program, but they said no because there is
1. No interest in postal matches
2. Postals are really only for kids.
I can provide you with some of the e-mails we got.
.49375.49330
1. No interest in postal matches
2. Postals are really only for kids.
I can provide you with some of the e-mails we got.
.49375.49330
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Michèle
Re: your comments indicate some gaps in your understanding
Len,
It is obvious that you are frustrated, but equally obvious that you are neither fully aware of the programs that are available through the NRA nor are you cognizant of the nuances of most of the rules, etc. Perhaps participation in competitions other than postals would put you in contact with the rest of the shooting world and help clarify some points that you have missed on your own.
You mentioned in one post that the NRA just cuts kids off at 18. Actually, according to the NRA rules, one is considered to be a junior until Dec. 31st of his/her 20th birthday.
You also repeatedly bang the drum about the NRA being anti-woman. As a woman competitor and coach, I really don't see where you are coming up with this. My past nineteen years of experience in the shooting sports has not made me feel in any way that the NRA was failing me based on my gender.
You expressed your dismay that your shooters had already eclipsed the qualification programs and had nothing left. What about the Excellence Performance Awards that came out within the past few years? They are precisely designed to go beyond the qualification charts.
One of your reasons for liking postals was that you claimed it was just a simple matter of finding 33 feet in order to compete. Wrong. There is no 33 foot event. The distance is 10 Meters and, once you do the math, you will discover that that is NOT 33 feet. So, while you are shooting your postals, you are neither firing your match in accordance with the rules nor in compliance with the distance used by your competition.
Frankly, I don't see what the huge attraction is to shooting postals anyway. While they do allow for isolated shooting, if you are working with a club of grown up juniors, why aren't they interested in shoulder-to-shoulder competitions?
Why not begin a shoulder-to-shoulder league? Why not participate in the NRA's Open Sectionals? The Sectional matches allow your shooters to compete in a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. They can get a national ranking based on how they do against other shooters of the same classification.
As your shooters progress, they may want to compete in the National Championships at Camp Perry. As adults, they should find that participating in such an event is particularly enjoyable, as, once again, they will have the opportunity to compete against shooters of equal ability. They will meet competitors from across the country and form new friendships while gaining in experience.
The NRA is supportive of adult shooting, but, just as any other large sports organization, the entry level focus is on the junior population.
Adults do have their opportunities, however. You can shoot registered matches, approved matches, sanctioned matches, recognized leagues, National Championships and the NRA even holds some adult camps and clinics from time to time.
Sorry, Len, but I'd have to agree with some of the other posts-- if you feel that there is a gap in opportunities to compete, work to fill it.
Michele
makpak3200-at-earthlink.net.49400.49297
It is obvious that you are frustrated, but equally obvious that you are neither fully aware of the programs that are available through the NRA nor are you cognizant of the nuances of most of the rules, etc. Perhaps participation in competitions other than postals would put you in contact with the rest of the shooting world and help clarify some points that you have missed on your own.
You mentioned in one post that the NRA just cuts kids off at 18. Actually, according to the NRA rules, one is considered to be a junior until Dec. 31st of his/her 20th birthday.
You also repeatedly bang the drum about the NRA being anti-woman. As a woman competitor and coach, I really don't see where you are coming up with this. My past nineteen years of experience in the shooting sports has not made me feel in any way that the NRA was failing me based on my gender.
You expressed your dismay that your shooters had already eclipsed the qualification programs and had nothing left. What about the Excellence Performance Awards that came out within the past few years? They are precisely designed to go beyond the qualification charts.
One of your reasons for liking postals was that you claimed it was just a simple matter of finding 33 feet in order to compete. Wrong. There is no 33 foot event. The distance is 10 Meters and, once you do the math, you will discover that that is NOT 33 feet. So, while you are shooting your postals, you are neither firing your match in accordance with the rules nor in compliance with the distance used by your competition.
Frankly, I don't see what the huge attraction is to shooting postals anyway. While they do allow for isolated shooting, if you are working with a club of grown up juniors, why aren't they interested in shoulder-to-shoulder competitions?
Why not begin a shoulder-to-shoulder league? Why not participate in the NRA's Open Sectionals? The Sectional matches allow your shooters to compete in a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. They can get a national ranking based on how they do against other shooters of the same classification.
As your shooters progress, they may want to compete in the National Championships at Camp Perry. As adults, they should find that participating in such an event is particularly enjoyable, as, once again, they will have the opportunity to compete against shooters of equal ability. They will meet competitors from across the country and form new friendships while gaining in experience.
The NRA is supportive of adult shooting, but, just as any other large sports organization, the entry level focus is on the junior population.
Adults do have their opportunities, however. You can shoot registered matches, approved matches, sanctioned matches, recognized leagues, National Championships and the NRA even holds some adult camps and clinics from time to time.
Sorry, Len, but I'd have to agree with some of the other posts-- if you feel that there is a gap in opportunities to compete, work to fill it.
Michele
makpak3200-at-earthlink.net.49400.49297
-
Michèle
Re: As well as the girls shoot-- no one is 'ignoring' them!
: As an side note: It's somewhat sad to see the NRA investing so much time, effort and money in male centric youth programs and totally ignoring females. They seem to see the value of the female vote at election time and cater to them as an adult with the "womens outlook" but don't sponsor ONE female centric youth shooting program. I mean if you don't foster the youth progrmas, where are these girls/women supposed to come from?
What are you talking about? The NRA does not discriminate against female athletes. You claim that they "don't sponsor one female centric youth shooting program" but I fail to see how that can be taken as a lack of fostering the shooting sports for women.
There is no specialized female only competition because THAT IS INSULTING. I compete and I coach (and I coach a number of young ladies). We don't want to compete only among ourselves. We want to have an opportunity to beat the competition, ANY competition.
The NRA doesn't bar females from participation and it doesn't ignor them either. Have you checked out who has been winning the NRA Junior 3-P Airgun Championships? Girls. They didn't need a special league of their own to do it, either.
One of the beauties of the shooting sports is its egalitarian nature. Men and women can compete equally.
To fault the NRA for not providing girls only opportunities is to foster a misconception that somehow girls/women cannot compete on equal terms.
So far as its recognition of young women, I think the NRA does a fine job of this. The past two years in a nation-wide competition, the NRA has chosen young women as Youth of the Year and provided them with scholarships. But the strength of that award is that the NRA recognized them based on merit, not gender.
While there has not been a push for female based programs in the youth ranks, the NRA does do a lot to focus on women. There is a whole department devoted to women's issues. Far from just printing Women's Outlook, the NRA also works to create classes such as 'refuse to be a victim.'
Before you go off half-cocked, check your facts.
makpak3200-at-earthlink.net.49401.49314
What are you talking about? The NRA does not discriminate against female athletes. You claim that they "don't sponsor one female centric youth shooting program" but I fail to see how that can be taken as a lack of fostering the shooting sports for women.
There is no specialized female only competition because THAT IS INSULTING. I compete and I coach (and I coach a number of young ladies). We don't want to compete only among ourselves. We want to have an opportunity to beat the competition, ANY competition.
The NRA doesn't bar females from participation and it doesn't ignor them either. Have you checked out who has been winning the NRA Junior 3-P Airgun Championships? Girls. They didn't need a special league of their own to do it, either.
One of the beauties of the shooting sports is its egalitarian nature. Men and women can compete equally.
To fault the NRA for not providing girls only opportunities is to foster a misconception that somehow girls/women cannot compete on equal terms.
So far as its recognition of young women, I think the NRA does a fine job of this. The past two years in a nation-wide competition, the NRA has chosen young women as Youth of the Year and provided them with scholarships. But the strength of that award is that the NRA recognized them based on merit, not gender.
While there has not been a push for female based programs in the youth ranks, the NRA does do a lot to focus on women. There is a whole department devoted to women's issues. Far from just printing Women's Outlook, the NRA also works to create classes such as 'refuse to be a victim.'
Before you go off half-cocked, check your facts.
makpak3200-at-earthlink.net.49401.49314
-
Len
Unfortunately you are very wrong
Not everyone has a club to shoot at, not every club will give range time to these various "orpna" events.
Look at the list of NRA postal matches availible.
Most are for kids, there is NO air pistol at all, and again depending on the group that "runs" in in conjunction with the NRA the cut offs are 18, 15, 31 it really depends on the group.
As to the 33 feet, nice try at splitting hairs but it's a common reference. The point being, if you can't understand it is that you don't have to find a range to go to if you can find enough room.
As to failing your gender, read again. I said they do very well at supporting females that are of voting age, with even a magazine. Show me how many postal matches for girls only? I can bet I can show you at least 3, and out of the recognized NRA postals, that's a lot.
But again you have totally missed the point in your desire and rush to affirm how good the NRA is.
Point is there are NO open postals in air pistol, no kids air pistol, very few postals that allow everyone to compete, even fewer that don't require you to be a member of a fraternal orgaization (and there are at least three that are male centric and not one female centric.
And lastly, I have offered to do the work and have a "sponsored" program for open air pistol and air rifle, but I have been told there is NO interest andpostals are really just for kids.
Here's the list of postals offered,
Some are open to ages up to 15, some are offered up to 18, some are offered up to 21. The issue being, you can only be a certain age for some of these groups, hence it's limited to the age group of the sponsor organization.
So your blanket statement about junior shooters being considered junior until the 20's, is absolutely false when speaking of the postal matches.
So it's an interesting rebuttle on your part but you may need to read up more on it before making comments about issues that have already been addressed in the thread.
.49404.49400
Look at the list of NRA postal matches availible.
Most are for kids, there is NO air pistol at all, and again depending on the group that "runs" in in conjunction with the NRA the cut offs are 18, 15, 31 it really depends on the group.
As to the 33 feet, nice try at splitting hairs but it's a common reference. The point being, if you can't understand it is that you don't have to find a range to go to if you can find enough room.
As to failing your gender, read again. I said they do very well at supporting females that are of voting age, with even a magazine. Show me how many postal matches for girls only? I can bet I can show you at least 3, and out of the recognized NRA postals, that's a lot.
But again you have totally missed the point in your desire and rush to affirm how good the NRA is.
Point is there are NO open postals in air pistol, no kids air pistol, very few postals that allow everyone to compete, even fewer that don't require you to be a member of a fraternal orgaization (and there are at least three that are male centric and not one female centric.
And lastly, I have offered to do the work and have a "sponsored" program for open air pistol and air rifle, but I have been told there is NO interest andpostals are really just for kids.
Here's the list of postals offered,
Some are open to ages up to 15, some are offered up to 18, some are offered up to 21. The issue being, you can only be a certain age for some of these groups, hence it's limited to the age group of the sponsor organization.
So your blanket statement about junior shooters being considered junior until the 20's, is absolutely false when speaking of the postal matches.
So it's an interesting rebuttle on your part but you may need to read up more on it before making comments about issues that have already been addressed in the thread.
.49404.49400
-
Len
Here's the link for NRA postal matches
Please show me where there's an junior Air Pistol Postal.
Please show me where there's an open air pistol postal.
Please show me where there's a female only postal of any sort.
(I can show you where there are male only postals)
Please show me that all those postals are open to junior shooters until their 20th birtday.
( I can show you where they are not)
Now if a group wanted to "sponsor" an open air pistol postal it would seem that it would be an interesting and easy thing to add. bu the answers we have gotten from the people that run the program are:
1. There's no interest in air pistol postals or offhand only open air rifle postals.
2. postals are really only for kids.
If you are not fortunate enough to live near a club that has a cadre of air pistol or air rifle shooters, then you are SOL, postals are a great way to get some competition and make those nights in the basement at 32.81 feet or 33 feet when you put your toe behind the line.
.49406.49400
Please show me where there's an open air pistol postal.
Please show me where there's a female only postal of any sort.
(I can show you where there are male only postals)
Please show me that all those postals are open to junior shooters until their 20th birtday.
( I can show you where they are not)
Now if a group wanted to "sponsor" an open air pistol postal it would seem that it would be an interesting and easy thing to add. bu the answers we have gotten from the people that run the program are:
1. There's no interest in air pistol postals or offhand only open air rifle postals.
2. postals are really only for kids.
If you are not fortunate enough to live near a club that has a cadre of air pistol or air rifle shooters, then you are SOL, postals are a great way to get some competition and make those nights in the basement at 32.81 feet or 33 feet when you put your toe behind the line.
.49406.49400