Hi Jeff
I can't find any reports refering to lead dust caused by soft lead pellets going down the rifled barrel of an airgun. Do you have a referance for these reports so I can read them?
The most important thing one can do if he suspects a problem is to get his blood tested for lead.
I would be cautious when reading reports about shooting ranges and concluding these have anything to do with airguns. You would need to ask for the study and check how it was conducted and by who. What were the controls of the study?
This issue is simular to the "Global Warming" issue. There are lots of people with aggenda's to be careful of.
I know of one shooter with elevated lead levels. He also cast bullets for years in a poorly ventilated area. As a young man he cleaned auto parts in leaded gasoline with bare hands, and sanded leaded paint. He is in his 80's. It is difficult to know which of his activities caused his elevated lead levels. : Anyone know of drawbacks to lead-free pellets for 10M air pistol shooting? I shoot indoors and am worried about the reports of lead poisoning likely caused by breathing the air after firing all these lead pellets, esp in indoor/home ranges.
: Any suggestions on best lead free pellets to use in an IZH 46M?
.47883.47834
Lead-free pellets?
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
akihmsa
Re: Lead-free pellets? yana?
May not have a choice based on what? : they're not very well reviewed by airgunners
: but maybe we'll just have to cope with them cause we may not have a choice in the future
.47884.47874
: but maybe we'll just have to cope with them cause we may not have a choice in the future
.47884.47874
-
TCooper
Re: Phoey!!
Ken,
Thanks you for the detailed information. Great stuff!
I was just about to comment on the dust found at shooting ranges but you made the same statements. The dust is mostly unburned powder. It accumulates quickly when high volume shooting happens.
Since there is no lead problem at the muzzle of an airgun then there is no real need for a fan behind the shooter. With a duct seal trap there should be no need for a fan at the trap either. Since there are no primers or ignition with airguns I don't think continuous airflow is needed.
When using powder burners the airflow should be going from behind the shooter towards the target. Our indoor range has a circulation system that loops behind the shooter and pushes the air downrange where it is sucked through vents and goes to pre-filters and HPA filters. It works pretty good unless the filters are dirty.
In summary, it sounds like I should be okay using APs in my carpeted basement, since I use a duct seal trap and wash my hands regularly. Air pistol barrels don't get leaded and there is no lead vapour in front of the shooter.
Thanks,
Todd
.47890.47875
Thanks you for the detailed information. Great stuff!
I was just about to comment on the dust found at shooting ranges but you made the same statements. The dust is mostly unburned powder. It accumulates quickly when high volume shooting happens.
Since there is no lead problem at the muzzle of an airgun then there is no real need for a fan behind the shooter. With a duct seal trap there should be no need for a fan at the trap either. Since there are no primers or ignition with airguns I don't think continuous airflow is needed.
When using powder burners the airflow should be going from behind the shooter towards the target. Our indoor range has a circulation system that loops behind the shooter and pushes the air downrange where it is sucked through vents and goes to pre-filters and HPA filters. It works pretty good unless the filters are dirty.
In summary, it sounds like I should be okay using APs in my carpeted basement, since I use a duct seal trap and wash my hands regularly. Air pistol barrels don't get leaded and there is no lead vapour in front of the shooter.
Thanks,
Todd
.47890.47875
-
Jeff
Lead aerosolization of pellets?
Here's the ones I found (some sources more biased than others, of course.) I also have cats I'm worried will find a chew a stray spent pellet since it's sweet. Basically I figure if lead-free ammo exists and works well, why not? One less thing to worry about.
"Indoor Shooting Galleries Source of Lead Poisoning"
http://www.earthvision.net/ColdFusion/N ... 12&start=1
http://www.nsc.org/pubs/sh/clip1299.htm
http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/kick ... olead.html
http://www.vpc.org/graphics/execsum.pdf
http://www.hs.state.az.us/phs/oeh/invsu ... _final.pdf
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=10914
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb97lead.html
http://library.uchc.edu/bhn/cite/nyt/2121lead.html
jwolverton-at-hotmail.com.47893.47883
"Indoor Shooting Galleries Source of Lead Poisoning"
http://www.earthvision.net/ColdFusion/N ... 12&start=1
http://www.nsc.org/pubs/sh/clip1299.htm
http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/kick ... olead.html
http://www.vpc.org/graphics/execsum.pdf
http://www.hs.state.az.us/phs/oeh/invsu ... _final.pdf
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=10914
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb97lead.html
http://library.uchc.edu/bhn/cite/nyt/2121lead.html
jwolverton-at-hotmail.com.47893.47883
-
Jeff
Re: Phoey!!
: However, I challenge you to find accounts of true lead poisoning due to shooting on a range.
Here you go. (And I challenge you back to get a lead blood test and report the result.)
Indoor Shooting Galleries Source of Lead Poisoning
NEW YORK, September 24, 1999 - The cases of four teenaged girls with lead poisoning from an indoor shooting range has been outlined in a recent issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. The girls were competitors at the same shooting range and went to the hospital for lead testing because they had heard about lead related dangers associated with ranges the New York Times reported. None of them were symptomatic.
The girls had followed the precautionary procedures recommended by their shooting range, such as changing their clothes and washing their hands after practicing.
"An indoor firing range is an enclosed, tight, poorly ventilated room that is blanketed with lead powder," said Dr. Michael Shannon, director of the Pediatric Environmental Health Center at Boston's Children's Hospital, and author of the report. "Those inside are not only inhaling it, absorbing lead through their lungs, but also getting it on their clothes, hair and fingers," which can lead to ingestion through their mouths.
According to the National Collegiate Athletic Association, there were 50 shooters on the nation's 11 intercollegiate women's rifle teams during the 1997-1998 season. There were 339 shooters on an additional 40 coed or men's teams.
jwolverton-at-hotmail.com.47895.47875
Here you go. (And I challenge you back to get a lead blood test and report the result.)
Indoor Shooting Galleries Source of Lead Poisoning
NEW YORK, September 24, 1999 - The cases of four teenaged girls with lead poisoning from an indoor shooting range has been outlined in a recent issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. The girls were competitors at the same shooting range and went to the hospital for lead testing because they had heard about lead related dangers associated with ranges the New York Times reported. None of them were symptomatic.
The girls had followed the precautionary procedures recommended by their shooting range, such as changing their clothes and washing their hands after practicing.
"An indoor firing range is an enclosed, tight, poorly ventilated room that is blanketed with lead powder," said Dr. Michael Shannon, director of the Pediatric Environmental Health Center at Boston's Children's Hospital, and author of the report. "Those inside are not only inhaling it, absorbing lead through their lungs, but also getting it on their clothes, hair and fingers," which can lead to ingestion through their mouths.
According to the National Collegiate Athletic Association, there were 50 shooters on the nation's 11 intercollegiate women's rifle teams during the 1997-1998 season. There were 339 shooters on an additional 40 coed or men's teams.
jwolverton-at-hotmail.com.47895.47875
-
Tal
Re: Is it even a legitimate concern?
I think it's aerosolization (i.e, floating around in the air, not sticking to paper) that is the concern.
: Hi Todd,
: I just went and carried out a simple experiment. I held a piece of clean white paper 5mm in front of the muzzle of my FWB 80, then fired 5 shots thro' it, about 25mm apart. Then I inspected the paper surface using a high magnification jeweller's loupe. In each case there were only 4 or 5 minute specks of lead around the pellet hole. This would SEEM to suggest that the amount of free lead dust blown out of the muzzle of an air pistol is minute. HTH.
: George
TalKane124-at-yahoo.com.47896.47861
: Hi Todd,
: I just went and carried out a simple experiment. I held a piece of clean white paper 5mm in front of the muzzle of my FWB 80, then fired 5 shots thro' it, about 25mm apart. Then I inspected the paper surface using a high magnification jeweller's loupe. In each case there were only 4 or 5 minute specks of lead around the pellet hole. This would SEEM to suggest that the amount of free lead dust blown out of the muzzle of an air pistol is minute. HTH.
: George
TalKane124-at-yahoo.com.47896.47861
-
Tal
More complete article on range lead poisioning case:
: : However, I challenge you to find accounts of true lead poisoning due to shooting on a range.
Indoor Shooting Can Lead to Lead Poisoning
Although organized and supervised indoor rifle competitions appear to be safe, researchers recently linked the sport to lead poisoning. A report in the Sept. 9, 1999, The New England Journal of Medicine, says the director of the Pediatric Environmental Health Center at Children's Hospital in Boston cited the cases of four girls between the ages of 14 and 16 who showed significant signs of lead poisoning. The four had competed at the same indoor range and all had taken safety precautions to avoid exposure to lead. Among other things, they washed their hands and changed their clothes after rifle practice. But these precautions may not be enough. According to the Boston researcher, the air in tight, poorly ventilated rooms becomes filled with lead powder as shots are fired. The participants then inhale the lead and absorb it into their lungs. They also get it on their clothes, in their hair and on their fingers. Although lead is not absorbed through the skin, some participants may put their fingers in their mouths, introducing lead into their systems.
Lead poisoning can damage the kidneys, bone marrow and nervous system. It also can harm the fetus of a pregnant woman. Employees at indoor firing ranges may be at particularly high risk. More information can be found at www.ohb.org/pntblnk1.htm or www.osha-slc.gov/OshStd_data/1910-1025.HTML
TalKane124-at-yahoo.com.47899.47895
Indoor Shooting Can Lead to Lead Poisoning
Although organized and supervised indoor rifle competitions appear to be safe, researchers recently linked the sport to lead poisoning. A report in the Sept. 9, 1999, The New England Journal of Medicine, says the director of the Pediatric Environmental Health Center at Children's Hospital in Boston cited the cases of four girls between the ages of 14 and 16 who showed significant signs of lead poisoning. The four had competed at the same indoor range and all had taken safety precautions to avoid exposure to lead. Among other things, they washed their hands and changed their clothes after rifle practice. But these precautions may not be enough. According to the Boston researcher, the air in tight, poorly ventilated rooms becomes filled with lead powder as shots are fired. The participants then inhale the lead and absorb it into their lungs. They also get it on their clothes, in their hair and on their fingers. Although lead is not absorbed through the skin, some participants may put their fingers in their mouths, introducing lead into their systems.
Lead poisoning can damage the kidneys, bone marrow and nervous system. It also can harm the fetus of a pregnant woman. Employees at indoor firing ranges may be at particularly high risk. More information can be found at www.ohb.org/pntblnk1.htm or www.osha-slc.gov/OshStd_data/1910-1025.HTML
TalKane124-at-yahoo.com.47899.47895
-
TCooper
Re: Lead aerosolization of pellets?
I just read through all the links you listed. None of them say there is a problem with lead dust at the muzzle of a pellet firing airgun. The problem seems to be with powder burners used in poorly ventilated areas.
Using a duct seal pellet trap and practicing proper hand washing should keep things under control for an airgunner.
Remember that pellets have a lot less contact with the bore when compared to bullets. A pellet is designed like a shuttlecock with contact only at the very narrow bearing surfaces (front & rear). A bullet has full contact with the barrel throughout it's length.
Here is a good clip from one of your links.
QUOTE:
How does it happen?
Lead poisoning at indoor ranges comes mostly from inhaling lead particles present in the air. These particles emit at different stages in the shooting process: from the ignition of the primer (the part of the bullet that is struck by the firing pin), which contains lead styphnate; from lead particles scraped off the bullet as it runs through the gun barrel; and from lead dust created when the bullet strikes a target or backstop.
Casting of one's own bullets is also a source of lead poisoning in indoor and outdoor shooting ranges. This is a common process among gun users that involves pouring molten lead into molds of different sizes to create the caliber bullet desired. The melting of lead can create fumes that remain in the air for hours, which in turn can be inhaled by humans and contaminate immediate surfaces. In "Poisonous Pastime," the director of a New Hampshire occupational health center attests that some of the worst cases of lead poisoning occur among individuals who make their own bullets.
Later,
Todd
.47900.47893
Using a duct seal pellet trap and practicing proper hand washing should keep things under control for an airgunner.
Remember that pellets have a lot less contact with the bore when compared to bullets. A pellet is designed like a shuttlecock with contact only at the very narrow bearing surfaces (front & rear). A bullet has full contact with the barrel throughout it's length.
Here is a good clip from one of your links.
QUOTE:
How does it happen?
Lead poisoning at indoor ranges comes mostly from inhaling lead particles present in the air. These particles emit at different stages in the shooting process: from the ignition of the primer (the part of the bullet that is struck by the firing pin), which contains lead styphnate; from lead particles scraped off the bullet as it runs through the gun barrel; and from lead dust created when the bullet strikes a target or backstop.
Casting of one's own bullets is also a source of lead poisoning in indoor and outdoor shooting ranges. This is a common process among gun users that involves pouring molten lead into molds of different sizes to create the caliber bullet desired. The melting of lead can create fumes that remain in the air for hours, which in turn can be inhaled by humans and contaminate immediate surfaces. In "Poisonous Pastime," the director of a New Hampshire occupational health center attests that some of the worst cases of lead poisoning occur among individuals who make their own bullets.
Later,
Todd
.47900.47893
-
TCooper
also...
"...from lead particles scraped off the bullet as it runs through the gun barrel"
I don't think the above quote should be a problem for airgunners. Powder burners need regular barrel cleaning to eliminate lead build-up. When cast bullets are shot in CF pistols the barrels sometimes need cleaning after every shooting session. The bullet has a long contact surface with the barrel. Lubricants are used to help keep leading down but leading still occurs.
With a pellet the barrel contact surface is very small because of the shuttlecock design. A pellet is designed with minimal friction. I have not yet seen any leading in my low velocity airguns so I don't think they are spitting lead aerosol out the muzzle.
Am I on the right track with the above thoughts?
Thanks,
Todd
.47901.47900
I don't think the above quote should be a problem for airgunners. Powder burners need regular barrel cleaning to eliminate lead build-up. When cast bullets are shot in CF pistols the barrels sometimes need cleaning after every shooting session. The bullet has a long contact surface with the barrel. Lubricants are used to help keep leading down but leading still occurs.
With a pellet the barrel contact surface is very small because of the shuttlecock design. A pellet is designed with minimal friction. I have not yet seen any leading in my low velocity airguns so I don't think they are spitting lead aerosol out the muzzle.
Am I on the right track with the above thoughts?
Thanks,
Todd
.47901.47900
-
Jeff
Re: also...
: Am I on the right track with the above thoughts?
: Thanks,
: Todd
Certainly sounds reasonable. Still, I'd like some actual data/research from a lab that has tested this (dunno if any has yet, so all we have is anecdotal evidence.) Also, I'd find it a hell of a coincidence if the sweet taste I'm tasting after 60 shots is lubricant (that happens to have a sweet taste?) and not (well-known to the be sweet tasting) lead in the air.
I'm shooting in my house (not always well ventilated when it's cold out!) where I sleep and my cats breathe 24-7.
jwolverton-at-hotmail.com.47907.47901
: Thanks,
: Todd
Certainly sounds reasonable. Still, I'd like some actual data/research from a lab that has tested this (dunno if any has yet, so all we have is anecdotal evidence.) Also, I'd find it a hell of a coincidence if the sweet taste I'm tasting after 60 shots is lubricant (that happens to have a sweet taste?) and not (well-known to the be sweet tasting) lead in the air.
I'm shooting in my house (not always well ventilated when it's cold out!) where I sleep and my cats breathe 24-7.
jwolverton-at-hotmail.com.47907.47901
-
Bubble boy
Re: also...
Well if you are that worried stop shooting you sound like you're working up to a frenzy. Do you still drive? You're more likely to die driving than experience any lead poisioning effects (from shooting air pistols or rifles in the house).
: : Am I on the right track with the above thoughts?
: : Thanks,
: : Todd
: Certainly sounds reasonable. Still, I'd like some actual data/research from a lab that has tested this (dunno if any has yet, so all we have is anecdotal evidence.) Also, I'd find it a hell of a coincidence if the sweet taste I'm tasting after 60 shots is lubricant (that happens to have a sweet taste?) and not (well-known to the be sweet tasting) lead in the air.
: I'm shooting in my house (not always well ventilated when it's cold out!) where I sleep and my cats breathe 24-7.
.47913.47907
: : Am I on the right track with the above thoughts?
: : Thanks,
: : Todd
: Certainly sounds reasonable. Still, I'd like some actual data/research from a lab that has tested this (dunno if any has yet, so all we have is anecdotal evidence.) Also, I'd find it a hell of a coincidence if the sweet taste I'm tasting after 60 shots is lubricant (that happens to have a sweet taste?) and not (well-known to the be sweet tasting) lead in the air.
: I'm shooting in my house (not always well ventilated when it's cold out!) where I sleep and my cats breathe 24-7.
.47913.47907
-
Richard
Re: Phoey!!
That is a medical journal and the articals are submitted for peer review. This is one study based on four people (not a great statistical sample) who may have had other common exposures (lead pipes or solder in an older school maybe). That is the problem with layman getting their hands on this type of data that they don't understand and can't look at objectively. Latest Medical Journals now have articles in them that coffee is good for you. Medical reshearch can be wrong. The public over reacts to all of these reports that now make it on to the news (because of the 24-7 news cycle). I have had blood tests and I have had clean tests for years (I am monitored by my employer) and have been shooting for years (mostly indoors)and I have been casting my own bullets for years as well.
Now if you really want to be scared look at teflon as in teflon pans, stay away from aluminium you'll get altzhimers (sp?), radiation from cell phones will give you brain tumors and all the other myriad of harmful things. I think you should buy some of that duct tape and plastic sheets like your Homeland Security czar suggested and seal yourself in your house, that is as long as you don't have any mold or formaldahyde spewing plastics in your house. That computer monitor your sitting in front of can kill you to you know.
: : However, I challenge you to find accounts of true lead poisoning due to shooting on a range.
: Here you go. (And I challenge you back to get a lead blood test and report the result.)
:
: Indoor Shooting Galleries Source of Lead Poisoning
: NEW YORK, September 24, 1999 - The cases of four teenaged girls with lead poisoning from an indoor shooting range has been outlined in a recent issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. The girls were competitors at the same shooting range and went to the hospital for lead testing because they had heard about lead related dangers associated with ranges the New York Times reported. None of them were symptomatic.
: The girls had followed the precautionary procedures recommended by their shooting range, such as changing their clothes and washing their hands after practicing.
: "An indoor firing range is an enclosed, tight, poorly ventilated room that is blanketed with lead powder," said Dr. Michael Shannon, director of the Pediatric Environmental Health Center at Boston's Children's Hospital, and author of the report. "Those inside are not only inhaling it, absorbing lead through their lungs, but also getting it on their clothes, hair and fingers," which can lead to ingestion through their mouths.
: According to the National Collegiate Athletic Association, there were 50 shooters on the nation's 11 intercollegiate women's rifle teams during the 1997-1998 season. There were 339 shooters on an additional 40 coed or men's teams.
.47914.47895
Now if you really want to be scared look at teflon as in teflon pans, stay away from aluminium you'll get altzhimers (sp?), radiation from cell phones will give you brain tumors and all the other myriad of harmful things. I think you should buy some of that duct tape and plastic sheets like your Homeland Security czar suggested and seal yourself in your house, that is as long as you don't have any mold or formaldahyde spewing plastics in your house. That computer monitor your sitting in front of can kill you to you know.
: : However, I challenge you to find accounts of true lead poisoning due to shooting on a range.
: Here you go. (And I challenge you back to get a lead blood test and report the result.)
:
: Indoor Shooting Galleries Source of Lead Poisoning
: NEW YORK, September 24, 1999 - The cases of four teenaged girls with lead poisoning from an indoor shooting range has been outlined in a recent issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. The girls were competitors at the same shooting range and went to the hospital for lead testing because they had heard about lead related dangers associated with ranges the New York Times reported. None of them were symptomatic.
: The girls had followed the precautionary procedures recommended by their shooting range, such as changing their clothes and washing their hands after practicing.
: "An indoor firing range is an enclosed, tight, poorly ventilated room that is blanketed with lead powder," said Dr. Michael Shannon, director of the Pediatric Environmental Health Center at Boston's Children's Hospital, and author of the report. "Those inside are not only inhaling it, absorbing lead through their lungs, but also getting it on their clothes, hair and fingers," which can lead to ingestion through their mouths.
: According to the National Collegiate Athletic Association, there were 50 shooters on the nation's 11 intercollegiate women's rifle teams during the 1997-1998 season. There were 339 shooters on an additional 40 coed or men's teams.
.47914.47895
-
David Bartlett
Time better spent!!
: Anyone know of drawbacks to lead-free pellets for 10M air pistol shooting? I shoot indoors and am worried about the reports of lead poisoning likely caused by breathing the air after firing all these lead pellets, esp in indoor/home ranges.
: Any suggestions on best lead free pellets to use in an IZH 46M?
If we all put as much time into working on our shooting technique as has been spent on this topic, we would all improve our scores by 10 points!! If you're worried, get tested.
dlb-at-mfx.net.47918.47834
: Any suggestions on best lead free pellets to use in an IZH 46M?
If we all put as much time into working on our shooting technique as has been spent on this topic, we would all improve our scores by 10 points!! If you're worried, get tested.
dlb-at-mfx.net.47918.47834
-
Mark
NEJM biase?
And of course, we've *NEVER* seen anti-gun article in the New England Journal of Medicine.....
: : However, I challenge you to find accounts of true lead poisoning due to shooting on a range.
: Here you go. (And I challenge you back to get a lead blood test and report the result.)
:
: Indoor Shooting Galleries Source of Lead Poisoning
: NEW YORK, September 24, 1999 - The cases of four teenaged girls with lead poisoning from an indoor shooting range has been outlined in a recent issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. The girls were competitors at the same shooting range and went to the hospital for lead testing because they had heard about lead related dangers associated with ranges the New York Times reported. None of them were symptomatic.
: The girls had followed the precautionary procedures recommended by their shooting range, such as changing their clothes and washing their hands after practicing.
: "An indoor firing range is an enclosed, tight, poorly ventilated room that is blanketed with lead powder," said Dr. Michael Shannon, director of the Pediatric Environmental Health Center at Boston's Children's Hospital, and author of the report. "Those inside are not only inhaling it, absorbing lead through their lungs, but also getting it on their clothes, hair and fingers," which can lead to ingestion through their mouths.
: According to the National Collegiate Athletic Association, there were 50 shooters on the nation's 11 intercollegiate women's rifle teams during the 1997-1998 season. There were 339 shooters on an additional 40 coed or men's teams.
.47919.47895
: : However, I challenge you to find accounts of true lead poisoning due to shooting on a range.
: Here you go. (And I challenge you back to get a lead blood test and report the result.)
:
: Indoor Shooting Galleries Source of Lead Poisoning
: NEW YORK, September 24, 1999 - The cases of four teenaged girls with lead poisoning from an indoor shooting range has been outlined in a recent issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. The girls were competitors at the same shooting range and went to the hospital for lead testing because they had heard about lead related dangers associated with ranges the New York Times reported. None of them were symptomatic.
: The girls had followed the precautionary procedures recommended by their shooting range, such as changing their clothes and washing their hands after practicing.
: "An indoor firing range is an enclosed, tight, poorly ventilated room that is blanketed with lead powder," said Dr. Michael Shannon, director of the Pediatric Environmental Health Center at Boston's Children's Hospital, and author of the report. "Those inside are not only inhaling it, absorbing lead through their lungs, but also getting it on their clothes, hair and fingers," which can lead to ingestion through their mouths.
: According to the National Collegiate Athletic Association, there were 50 shooters on the nation's 11 intercollegiate women's rifle teams during the 1997-1998 season. There were 339 shooters on an additional 40 coed or men's teams.
.47919.47895
-
TCooper
Jeff...
Today I booked a doctors appointed for Feb 04, 2004. I will get a blood test done and post the results.
I shoot in my basement and have been doing so for 7 years. I also sleep in my basement because I work shifts and like darkness when I sleep. I live in Canada so it is winter for most of the year and I keep the windows closed. If lead is a problem I should see it in my blood after 7 years. Hopefully my test results will lay this issue to rest.
Later,
Todd
.47924.47907
I shoot in my basement and have been doing so for 7 years. I also sleep in my basement because I work shifts and like darkness when I sleep. I live in Canada so it is winter for most of the year and I keep the windows closed. If lead is a problem I should see it in my blood after 7 years. Hopefully my test results will lay this issue to rest.
Later,
Todd
.47924.47907
-
Ken J
Blahh, phoey!!
Jeff,
I stated in my post that an air flow was necessary on an indoor range, as in the one I've got on my range. The NEJM quote states that indoor ranges are closed in, poor ventilation and filled with lead dust.
Don't you see the pattern?? Are you blind? Yes, by their nature, indoor ranges are closed in. However, they should have positive air flow ventilation. If they don't, shooters should limit their time on that range. The NEJM is painting a real rosy picture of indoor ranges. I will grant you, that of all the ranges in the US, there have got to be some (albeit few) that are not up to snuff.
Filled with lead dust is another great one. See my previous post. The great majority of the dust is not lead. Lead does not float in air, unless suspended by a helium balloon. The lead styphenate used in priming compounds does contribute to lead on a range, but it can be negated. Take a block of lead and smell it. Does it smell like anything? I don't recommend this, but if you were take lead up to its fuming point, you might smell something, but it ain't what you smell on an indoor range. What you smell is burned powder and lubricant.
I have my blood level tested annually. Upon entering the Army (US Army Marksmanship Unit) in 1992, my blood lead level was 13 (micrograms per deciliter, I believe). That was 12 years ago. My last test was in November, 03. My blood lead level on that test was.... 13.
To be honest, I don't know where I got the lead level I've got. I've talked with doctors about it. They do not have a concern with my level. It falls within normal limits. What I do know is that despite ALL my indoor shooting and outdoor shooting and casting and cleaning, it has not changed.
.47941.47895
I stated in my post that an air flow was necessary on an indoor range, as in the one I've got on my range. The NEJM quote states that indoor ranges are closed in, poor ventilation and filled with lead dust.
Don't you see the pattern?? Are you blind? Yes, by their nature, indoor ranges are closed in. However, they should have positive air flow ventilation. If they don't, shooters should limit their time on that range. The NEJM is painting a real rosy picture of indoor ranges. I will grant you, that of all the ranges in the US, there have got to be some (albeit few) that are not up to snuff.
Filled with lead dust is another great one. See my previous post. The great majority of the dust is not lead. Lead does not float in air, unless suspended by a helium balloon. The lead styphenate used in priming compounds does contribute to lead on a range, but it can be negated. Take a block of lead and smell it. Does it smell like anything? I don't recommend this, but if you were take lead up to its fuming point, you might smell something, but it ain't what you smell on an indoor range. What you smell is burned powder and lubricant.
I have my blood level tested annually. Upon entering the Army (US Army Marksmanship Unit) in 1992, my blood lead level was 13 (micrograms per deciliter, I believe). That was 12 years ago. My last test was in November, 03. My blood lead level on that test was.... 13.
To be honest, I don't know where I got the lead level I've got. I've talked with doctors about it. They do not have a concern with my level. It falls within normal limits. What I do know is that despite ALL my indoor shooting and outdoor shooting and casting and cleaning, it has not changed.
.47941.47895
-
Jeff
Sounds like that might answer this once & for all
Cool! That should answer this issue pretty definitely.
: Today I booked a doctors appointed for Feb 04, 2004. I will get a blood test done and post the results.
: I shoot in my basement and have been doing so for 7 years. I also sleep in my basement because I work shifts and like darkness when I sleep. I live in Canada so it is winter for most of the year and I keep the windows closed. If lead is a problem I should see it in my blood after 7 years. Hopefully my test results will lay this issue to rest.
: Later,
: Todd
jwolverton-at-hotmail.com.47954.47924
: Today I booked a doctors appointed for Feb 04, 2004. I will get a blood test done and post the results.
: I shoot in my basement and have been doing so for 7 years. I also sleep in my basement because I work shifts and like darkness when I sleep. I live in Canada so it is winter for most of the year and I keep the windows closed. If lead is a problem I should see it in my blood after 7 years. Hopefully my test results will lay this issue to rest.
: Later,
: Todd
jwolverton-at-hotmail.com.47954.47924
-
Jeff
Re: also...
: Well if you are that worried stop shooting you sound like you're working up to a frenzy. Do you still drive? You're more likely to die driving than experience any lead poisioning effects
Not really the same thing (I.e., Driving you can see the danger directly.) People thuoght smoking was healthy for centuries (you just died of 'old age' at around 43.) Not a frenzy, just want an answer that's got something more behind it than "pshaw". That blood test should settle it.
jwolverton-at-hotmail.com.47955.47913
Not really the same thing (I.e., Driving you can see the danger directly.) People thuoght smoking was healthy for centuries (you just died of 'old age' at around 43.) Not a frenzy, just want an answer that's got something more behind it than "pshaw". That blood test should settle it.
jwolverton-at-hotmail.com.47955.47913
-
Jeff
Re: Phoey!!
: Now if you really want to be scared look at teflon as in teflon pans, stay away from aluminium you'll get altzhimers (sp?), radiation from cell phones will give you brain tumors
Actually, most studies have NOT shown a correlation between tumors and cell phone, nor does aluminum enter your body from foil or pans.
I fell like I'm getting a lot of "reverse paranoia" (I.e-- AUGH! It's the anti-gun lobbyists at work again! It's all bunk!) or the "Jeez, SOMETHINGS gonna kill ya eventually, so relax & have a cigarette like my grandpa did."
I just want an answer, guys. We know the dangers of radiation (i.e, likely none at all from computers & cell phones, but there was a good deal when they used radioluminescene paints so that got banned) so I'd like to know (even-handed) info on the possible dangers of lead from shooting. Apolitically!
:: That computer monitor your sitting in front of can kill you to you know.
[Again- no, studies (and there have been some) show that it can't. Actual studies, not "Well, I did this and lived" anecdotal evidence. It's just science, guys, no emotion needed.]
.47956.47914
Actually, most studies have NOT shown a correlation between tumors and cell phone, nor does aluminum enter your body from foil or pans.
I fell like I'm getting a lot of "reverse paranoia" (I.e-- AUGH! It's the anti-gun lobbyists at work again! It's all bunk!) or the "Jeez, SOMETHINGS gonna kill ya eventually, so relax & have a cigarette like my grandpa did."
I just want an answer, guys. We know the dangers of radiation (i.e, likely none at all from computers & cell phones, but there was a good deal when they used radioluminescene paints so that got banned) so I'd like to know (even-handed) info on the possible dangers of lead from shooting. Apolitically!
:: That computer monitor your sitting in front of can kill you to you know.
[Again- no, studies (and there have been some) show that it can't. Actual studies, not "Well, I did this and lived" anecdotal evidence. It's just science, guys, no emotion needed.]
.47956.47914
-
Richard
Re: Phoey!!
Where is the science in what you sited that has you all worried? It was one article with no information that was written in 1999. I know all those things that I sited are BS, but they all had intial studies that showed there was a problem. Rather than get your shorts in a knot go get a blood test. And if you really are worried stop shooting.
.47960.47956
.47960.47956