TargetTalk

The ejection "issue" (which I admit is minor) appears to be from the greasy lube, and not the diameter of the ammo. A single patch through the bore allowed a fired case to eject with the usual enthusiasm.

I'll go though my collection of odds & ends and see if I can find an ammo that uses a thinner & less sticky lube, combined with the shorter bullet shape. The Aguila lube is nice & clean, but the bullet shape is wrong. I won't bother checking the Russian stuff I have. I know it is the greasiest ammo I've ever encountered...

I just got back from the range. The weather was much more bearable today, and I fired a full 60 shots with 10 sighters. I started with Norma Tac-22. A friend had given me 50 rounds to try, so I had to switch to the SK Pistol Match when that ran out.

I was mistaken, the Norma ammo actually has an RWS headstamp, not SK/Lapua. It works great! It not only feeds very easily, but it also ejects properly! The 50th round went in & out of the chamber pretty much as easily as the first. Within 10 rounds of switching to SK Pistol Match, I was back to fishing the rounds out of the chamber with my fingernail.

The Norma currently sells for around $40 to $50 for a "brick" of 500. Given that I don't shoot a ton of free pistol every year, it's very affordable, and less than half the cost of the SK Pistol match. I'll keep my eyes open for a sale. In the meantime, the friend that gave me the 50 rounds is going to supply me with a couple boxes of Norma for the State Olympics this coming Sunday. Norma also sells a Tac-22 Subsonic ammo, and I may try that at some point.

At my best, I was never good enough to notice ANY difference in accuracy with all the various types of ammo I have shot from my free pistols. For me, the Norma appears to be just as accurate as the SK Pistol Match, Aguila Sub Sonic or Federal 711B that I've tried recently.

I have a CM84 that I use for Free Pistol, and oddly, it works best with US brands, rather than European .22. I have an old lot of Federal Champion 22 that works great, and for matches I use Federal Gold Medal 711B. Both work really well for feeding and easy extracting after firing. And buying different lots doesn't seem to affect my experience.

If you can find some locally, I recommend giving it a try.

-Kevin

I shot some older Federal 711B for years, and it was OK, but still tended to get harder & harder to load.

Apparently there are two flavors of Norma Tac-22 around. There is black box & red box:
The black box is older, and VERY greasy. The stuff I tried that worked really well was the red box, which has a much nicer lube. I think it's harder & thinner, so it's not nearly as messy. My guess is that it's the same basic ammo, but they got enough complaints about the lube that they changed that.

My free pistol match today got canceled on account of downpours, and it's rescheduled for July 30th. Two more weeks to practice and find more ammo. Living in Massachusetts, it's very difficult to mail order ammo. There's a guy in New Hampshire (about a half an hour away) who sells the red box stuff at a good price, but only at flea markets on Sundays. He's rained out today as well.

Doug, I'm not sure if you noticed my post before that I've been shooting Federal Auto Match in my revolver with great results. It's on the shelf at many places for cheap, too. A friend nearby (Marlboro) has 7 325-bulk boxes in fact which I'm sure he'd love to sell you, even cheaper.

-TT- wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2023 7:58 pm ...
I recently bought a bulk box of Federal Auto Match, it's slightly higher velocity but most importantly it appears to be completely unlubed. The 40 grain lead bullets are silver and dry. It shoots, and ejects, beautifully from the revolver. At $20 for 325 rounds, it sure is easy to try!

Totally agree on the black-box Norma TAC. Drippiest ammo I've ever had the displeasure to shoot.

My assumption (which could be wrong) is that the lube & brass of the Automatch are similar enough to the Federal 711B that I've tried that I should look elsewhere.

Part of the problem is that ammo is constantly changing. I've got Federal 711 (old, and really good, but not in my free pistol), 711B (old, and won't cycle many semi-auto pistols), and newer 711B (even worse in semi-autos). Norma Tac-22 has only been out a few years, and the red box is VERY different from black box. I've also got Aguila Subsonic, which used to work fine in semi-autos, and the new stuff won't.

For now, I think I will try a bit more red box Norma, and then buy a bunch before they have time to change it.

Sure, no worries. I'll say however that I can not detect any lube on the Auto Match. Perhaps there's the thinnest possible coat of some sort of antioxidant, but it's literally grey-white lead and nothing wipes off. It leaves nothing in the revolver cylinder, which gooped up in under 50 rounds with SK and CCI. Oh, and it doesn't keyhole like they did, either.

I'll look for the new Norma.

Have you tried Aguila? They use a very thin coat of what I'm guessing is a hard wax. It's not very noticeable, whatever it is, and it certainly isn't greasy.
I suspect the wax is sort of like what CCI uses, only harder, and they don't drown the bullets in the stuff.

I have not tried Aguila, no. Some shooters at my range don't have many nice things to say about it, one shooter got 10 boxes of rifle match in a brick box labeled pistol match, it shoots flames from his Ruger, while failing to cycle reliably.

I, my wife, and the pistol team I help coach have fired over 100K rounds of the stuff (standard velocity), without any issues. We've had WAY more trouble with CCI (too much lube & misfires). The Aguila lube is clean, and in all that time, I don't think I've ever encountered a single dud. They licensed their priming technology from Eley for many years. That arrangement lapsed several years ago, but they clearly learned how to do it right.

Some vintages of Aguila sub-sonic are marginal in semi-auto pistols. Greg Derr used to recommend it for Pardinis twenty years ago, but they changed the powder formula, and it doesn't work as well now.

The only problem I ever had was a brick or two that hadn't been crimped properly. They left occasional brass shavings in the action. Before you dismiss Aguila on account of that, I had exactly the same problem with some Eley target.

ALL .22 rimfire ammo goes through ups & downs, but Aguila standard velocity has been my go-to ammo for a couple decades now. Federal went through a period in the early the early 2000's when they shipped a lot of bad ammo. I gave up on Remington over 30 years ago. Before that, it was great stuff. YMMV...

I just bought some Tac-22 that has a RWS headstamp.

Shot my TOZ this a.m. with CCI Standard, CCI Quiet, Eley, and cheap-ass Federal.

Federal worked easiest.

+1.5 on Aguila SV: +1 because it has been reliable (in SW 41 and Hammerli 208s), and +.5 because it is inexpensive and widely available.

Last range day went through several boxes of Aguila without issues, then switched to some left over Wolf (made by Eley) and got several FTF's. The Wolf ammo felt cleaner to the fingers (Aguila feels a bit greasy), but was not reliable. CCI shoots OK in my guns but as GWhite indicated many boxes have globs of excess waxy lube. Aguila mas bueno.

brent375hh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:18 pm I just bought some Tac-22 that has a RWS headstamp.

For the last maybe 20 years every sort of Norma 22rf has been manufactured by RWS.

Just a few observations here. Many .22LR bullets are lubed with bees way and lanolin. RWS, Eley, Aguila older Lapua. This prevented oxidizing of the lead. Some use an oil product like SK for example or CCI. This is really to keep the ammo looking fresh. If you ever looked at some older Remington ammo or such you will know what I mean.

Now this wax is usually OK- if the ammo is handled and transported properly. Let's look at Aguila, just as an example. The ammo is made in Mexico and then distributed through Texas (both hot climates) see where I'm going. If the ammo is shipped and stored "tip down" the was which gets soft and migrates - usually moves toward the tip. If shipped on its side, you guest it- the wax gathers on one side making the round bullet less round. I actually like Aguila and shoot it today. Even set a few records with it.

The other big issue that affected .22 ammo was a rush on the industry. When things got stupid for either an election or Covid supplies dwindled. To keep up some companies tried to increase production, but with that some quality control was lost. And maybe a shortage of employees contributed to this. I have no hard proof but I hear things in the industry.

CCI and lights hits, this has been an issue for a long time with European guns mostly. CCI is very long and maybe the longest looking as SAMMI specs. Most European barrels are designed using European ammo specs. When using CCI the rounds on occasion will load proud( sticking a tad out of the barrel). Combine this with a gun with a huge disconnector gap allowing the hammer to fall, thus the firing pin seats the case instead of creating an anvil effect hammering the rim against the breech face pinching the primer. This is one reason a recommend "America Ammo- American Gun" "European Ammo- European Gun" Aguila of course is Mexican but designed by Europeans.

On free pistols I would be more concerned with group and felt recoil/ muzzle flip than anything else. Remember Federal "Ultra Match" tested really well but the recoil and flip was harsh. Keep your eye on the "ball" or in this case sight alignment and trigger control. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Have a Hammerli 150.

Norma Tac and Federal 711B insert and eject perfectly. CCI is normally trouble-free.

The Norma is readily available at a decent price. 711B isn't or is still too expensive for me.

An interesting point with Norma Tac is that it works perfectly in my Kart 1911 22 Conversion, MG-2 EVO RF, Walther GSP Expert. Everything works great in the GSP, but the Kart and MG-2 sometimes have issues. Current CCI is too long for my MG-2.

CCI, Norma Match, Tgt Pistol, and Aguila all insert without issue, but each can have, albeit rarely, an occasional issue with ejecting the case.

A #5 knitting needle takes care of a stuck case should it happen (I don't knit but my wife does). Negates the need to have to use something that can damage or make marks on the chamber.

I have the same problem with my Hammerli 150. The only ammo that will chamber constantly is either Federal Match or Federal target match. I have compared them to quite a few others, CCI, Remington, Eley, Aguila etc and they seem to be just a little shorter ( I think about .010 if memoir serves me well). Don’t know about the CM84 but might do the trick.