TargetTalk

Geez, a guy in a country that already has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world wants to find a way to interpret the rules to discourage other would-be competitors from using the most common centerfire pistol cartridge on Earth...unbelievable.

9mm is not the most common ISSF centrefire cartridge though is it?

Here someone shooting ISSF centrefire with a 9mm is pretty well exclusively someone abusing the system to get his hands on a weapon he wouldn't otherwise be able to have.

I'm not interested in facilitating these scumbags, or having actual competitors having their training disrupted by a moron who watched Die Hard too many times and as often as not can't be bothered to even look at his target.

Nobody worries too much if they use a 9mm or similar in 'service / combat' style matches.

What these inconsiderate people do is disrupt people who are shooting according to the match rules as set out by the ISSF. The noise and muzzle blast is disconcerting for other shooters. See the comment by Gwhite on March 04, he hit the spot.
Note the number of 9mm and similar used at World Cup competitions. NONE!!

I agree with Gwhite also, as having your shooting range put restrictions on the high pressure cartridges. If the shooters want to shoot them, then squad them separately when they register for the match. You could have a separate relay just for them if you'd like. You might peeve some off but they are doing the same to some of the other shooters.
When I went to my first sanctioned bullseye match, I was put with all the unclassifieds. I went to a Regional match that always squads Marksman to HighMaster and they still do, I can see why they do this.
Stan

JamesH wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:29 am 9mm is not the most common ISSF centrefire cartridge though is it?

Here someone shooting ISSF centrefire with a 9mm is pretty well exclusively someone abusing the system to get his hands on a weapon he wouldn't otherwise be able to have.

I'm not interested in facilitating these scumbags, or having actual competitors having their training disrupted by a moron who watched Die Hard too many times and as often as not can't be bothered to even look at his target.

If this is what you believe, you deserve all the restrictive laws you get. I wouldn't turn away would-be competitors and fellow allies against anti-gun folks. Enjoy being reduced to mere lasers in the future.

Nope, I disagree completely.

Nuts who use a loophole get hold of a weapon when they aren't entitled to one aren't allies they are a liability.

Yippee Ki-yay!

And who is it that bestows this "entitlement", Subject!

It is a slippery slope to have "good" guns and "bad" guns.
The vast majority of people don't know the difference. I worked with a guy that though all semi auto guns should be outlawed, but owned a Browning A5. He somehow thought it was OK, because he considered it as such.

I hate going to an indoor range with people shooting 7" 5.56 ARs, but I think of them as discourteous as opposed to nuts.

The best option is to see if you can convert them to real target shooters. Restrict the loads they can shoot so they aren't blasting people with shock waves, and then shame them into learning how to shoot better by showing them what is possible. The folks with 9mm at our club arrive convinced that "marksmanship" is blasting a full silhouette target at 10 feet as fast as they can. Many of them (all guys...) won't listen to any advice because they were in the military, or are police officers, and "already know all there is to know about shooting". Others will see what a decent 25 meter target looks like, and start asking questions.

madmax wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:45 am
Note the number of 9mm and similar used at World Cup competitions. NONE!!

Note the number of centre fire cartridges used in World Cups... NONE!! Centre fire has never been in World Cups so your statement is useless!!

JamesH wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:29 am
Here someone shooting ISSF centrefire with a 9mm is pretty well exclusively someone abusing the system to get his hands on a weapon he wouldn't otherwise be able to have.

Your use of the word "weapon" is just what the antigunners like to hear. Did you ever consider that the guy that shoots CF with a 9mm might also be a Service Pistol Shooter? Who, with a bit of encouragement might one day be an ISSF shooter?

Typical for Australian club scene.
You need to be a member of a club to own and shoot pistol and get a licence.
You join, do a safety course/introduction and go on a probation licence.
Most clubs want you to do Air pistol or .22 for 6 competitions before
shooting centrefire, then 6 matchs before shooting service pistol.
i.e. Learn how to shoot.
New shooters these days just want to get a 9mm (usually Glock) and shoot.
Most cannot keep all shots on a target at 25m, use factory loads (note factory
lead 9mm is rare and should not be used in a Glock).

j-team wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:50 pmYour use of the word "weapon" is just what the antigunners like to hear. Did you ever consider that the guy that shoots CF with a 9mm might also be a Service Pistol Shooter? Who, with a bit of encouragement might one day be an ISSF shooter?

The point is for them its exactly that, a weapon, and no, they're not service shooters or aspiring ISSF shooters.
They're not interested in shooting any matches at all, they've just found a loophole which allows them to keep a 9mm at home.

Rover wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:43 am And who is it that bestows this "entitlement", Subject!

The govt does
- Bona fide competition shooters may possess handguns for competition
- Everyone else may not

JamesH wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:22 am - Everyone else may not

Except the criminals . . .

. . . anyway, getting way too close to politics here. Damn, dude, go to a gun range & complain about guns? Buy some earplugs & lay off the Fosters.

David,I think the calc. should read:

“thus a 120g SWC at 1000 f/s = 120,000”

It's the engineering pedant in me…

Bob

BobGee wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:26 pm David,I think the calc. should read:

“thus a 120g SWC at 1000 f/s = 120,000”

It's the engineering pedant in me…

Bob

Yes, the maths is 120,000 but is usually expressed as a three places.i.e

"3.16 Ammunition
(a) General
Any ammunition factor higher than 180, is prohibited."

"(d) Distinguished Revolver
Either hand loaded or factory loaded ammunition of .38 special, 158 grain.
No midrange wadcutter ammunition will be allowed.
A minimum power factor of 110 is mandatory."

Still the best way to limit the range power level.

j-team wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:47 pm

madmax wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:45 am
Note the number of 9mm and similar used at World Cup competitions. NONE!!

Note the number of centre fire cartridges used in World Cups... NONE!! Centre fire has never been in World Cups so your statement is useless!!

Interestingly, back in 2012, our old friend conradin posted a list of Free Pistols used in Olympics, World Champs and Cups from 1896 and in the first few years, the pistols were centrefire (Sept 2012 - Topic #36503) in calibres from .44 to 7.5. In 1906 someone even used a DWM Swiss Luger, which would have been a 30 calibre (7.62); apart from the .44, nothing as large as the 9mm. After that, I think the pistols were largely .22 and, according to conradin's research, after World War II, .22 was mandated and eventually only .22LR was allowed.

I agree that trying to shoot an ISSF style match alongside someone with a CZ or Glock shooting 9mm factory loads is quite disconcerting. However, they usually shoot so fast that you still have time in the rest of the particular stage to shoot unhindered. That said, in our club we try to get the centrefire shooters to go to the far end of the 20-bay range with the 9mm farthest of all.

Bob