TargetTalk

I took a sleeping pill once and dreamt I shot 600.....shame that I awoke to reality.

emre-nur wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:59 pm

toddinjax wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:37 am If one can't compete without cheating, one should not attempt to compete.

What if we had doping-free olympics? Then it would not be cheating since all participants accept in advance.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken but I am assuming a typo in your post and what you intended to say was... "Doping allowed to everyone so it will make for a level playing field"?
I pity and despise people who think like this for their ignorance and pathetic lack of character and honesty. They've no place in sports, or any other field, business, work, friendship, etc. that I would wish to be part of. I find it incredibly dim whited and arrogant to ignore the written rules of a sport, rules that every participant agrees to follow. Cheating is cheating no matter what, that will never change. If you're not good enough, stop behaving like an infant and accept your own limitations and do the best you can at whatever you choose to do. Would the idiots who think cheating is OK because "everybody is doing it" be OK with a surgeon and dentist cheated their why through medical school and internships?
From a scientific point it is also not true that letting everyone dope makes for a level field of play. PED's simply do not work at the same rate for every asshat that uses them. It has been documented that some people will experience an increased boost in performance than others when they all take the same dose of ped's.
If one can't play by the rules, DON'T PLAY. Competitors don't get to make or play by their own rules. A governing body does that, and those are the rules of play. Accept it or stay out.

toddinjax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:42 am

emre-nur wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:59 pm

toddinjax wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:37 am If one can't compete without cheating, one should not attempt to compete.

What if we had doping-free olympics? Then it would not be cheating since all participants accept in advance.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken but I am assuming a typo in your post and what you intended to say was... "Doping allowed to everyone so it will make for a level playing field"?
I pity and despise people who think like this for their ignorance and pathetic lack of character and honesty. They've no place in sports, or any other field, business, work, friendship, etc. that I would wish to be part of. I find it incredibly dim whited and arrogant to ignore the written rules of a sport, rules that every participant agrees to follow. Cheating is cheating no matter what, that will never change. If you're not good enough, stop behaving like an infant and accept your own limitations and do the best you can at whatever you choose to do. Would the idiots who think cheating is OK because "everybody is doing it" be OK with a surgeon and dentist cheated their why through medical school and internships?
From a scientific point it is also not true that letting everyone dope makes for a level field of play. PED's simply do not work at the same rate for every asshat that uses them. It has been documented that some people will experience an increased boost in performance than others when they all take the same dose of ped's.
If one can't play by the rules, DON'T PLAY. Competitors don't get to make or play by their own rules. A governing body does that, and those are the rules of play. Accept it or stay out.

hmmm... I understand that you have strong convictions.

toddinjax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:42 am

emre-nur wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:59 pm

toddinjax wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:37 am If one can't compete without cheating, one should not attempt to compete.

What if we had doping-free olympics? Then it would not be cheating since all participants accept in advance.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken but I am assuming a typo in your post and what you intended to say was... "Doping allowed to everyone so it will make for a level playing field"?
I pity and despise people who think like this for their ignorance and pathetic lack of character and honesty. They've no place in sports, or any other field, business, work, friendship, etc. that I would wish to be part of. I find it incredibly dim whited and arrogant to ignore the written rules of a sport, rules that every participant agrees to follow. Cheating is cheating no matter what, that will never change. If you're not good enough, stop behaving like an infant and accept your own limitations and do the best you can at whatever you choose to do. Would the idiots who think cheating is OK because "everybody is doing it" be OK with a surgeon and dentist cheated their why through medical school and internships?
From a scientific point it is also not true that letting everyone dope makes for a level field of play. PED's simply do not work at the same rate for every asshat that uses them. It has been documented that some people will experience an increased boost in performance than others when they all take the same dose of ped's.
If one can't play by the rules, DON'T PLAY. Competitors don't get to make or play by their own rules. A governing body does that, and those are the rules of play. Accept it or stay out.

One question: Was the quoted previous comment written with the aid of a performance-reducing substance?

emre-nur wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:07 am

toddinjax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:42 am

emre-nur wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:59 pm

toddinjax wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:37 am If one can't compete without cheating, one should not attempt to compete.

What if we had doping-free olympics? Then it would not be cheating since all participants accept in advance.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken but I am assuming a typo in your post and what you intended to say was... "Doping allowed to everyone so it will make for a level playing field"?
I pity and despise people who think like this for their ignorance and pathetic lack of character and honesty. They've no place in sports, or any other field, business, work, friendship, etc. that I would wish to be part of. I find it incredibly dim whited and arrogant to ignore the written rules of a sport, rules that every participant agrees to follow. Cheating is cheating no matter what, that will never change. If you're not good enough, stop behaving like an infant and accept your own limitations and do the best you can at whatever you choose to do. Would the idiots who think cheating is OK because "everybody is doing it" be OK with a surgeon and dentist cheated their why through medical school and internships?
From a scientific point it is also not true that letting everyone dope makes for a level field of play. PED's simply do not work at the same rate for every asshat that uses them. It has been documented that some people will experience an increased boost in performance than others when they all take the same dose of ped's.
If one can't play by the rules, DON'T PLAY. Competitors don't get to make or play by their own rules. A governing body does that, and those are the rules of play. Accept it or stay out.

hmmm... I understand that you have strong convictions.

Letting everyone do whatever they wanted was a common refrain in professional bicycle racing.. It didn't work primarily because the team with the best doping program, which cost a lot of money, usually won. Armstrong and US Postal being the prime example.

Also, there was the downside of multiple deaths in their sleep of young, otherwise healthy Dutch racers dying from heart attacks early on when EPO was introduced before the usage protocol was perfected. There were also cyclists using human growth hormone who developed acromegalia requiring dental surgery and foot surgery when their growth plates grew again.

As for shooting, I can see where ADD medication could help a shooter who does not have ADD. I do have ADD and take amphetamine salts. I wish that I had been diagnosed years ago before I went to law school. I would have had much more free time instead of reading boring cases start and stop because my bored mind wandered. If I try to play chess without my ADD meds, I play much worse than I normally do. I've had non-ADD chess players offer to buy some of my meds to aid their focus. It will do that for players not suffering from ADD. If you have ADD, the meds just allow you to play you own normal. I've never been subject to a doping test playing chess, but in theory could be. I think one legitimately using ADD meds would be able to obtain a therapeutic use exemption under the WADA code. .

william wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:16 am

B Lafferty wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:17 pm I do have ADD and take amphetamine salts. I wish that I had been diagnosed years ago before I went to law school.

One question: Was the quoted previous comment written with the aid of a performance-reducing substance?

William, please check into rehab(¿) before you shoot your eye out! Perhaps you can hire an ADD lawyer taking amphetamine-salts(ß) to reverse your commitment to the mental institution(╪).

Legal Footnotes:
¿. General "Mental Defective" (Form 4473, question (f) "mental defective") & Does Form 4473, question(e) include alcoholism?
ß. I SWEAR I'm not making up an "ADD Lawyer taking amphetamine-salts" (see prior post) (Form 4473, question(e) "addicted to any controlled substance")
╪. Back to Form 4473, question(f) "committed to a mental institution" even a lock-down asylum in communist New Hampshire?

OMG! The Olympics are over and TargetTalk has turned into the biggest Freak-Show since The Island of Doctor Moreau. I'm ordering a Safari Rifle.

Gale is too clever by half. Does he think originality can be cooked up with "Copy" & "Paste" commands? And "communist New Hampshire"? I'd say "risible," but I don't know if it's in his vocabulary.

toddinjax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:42 am If one can't play by the rules, DON'T PLAY. Competitors don't get to make or play by their own rules. A governing body does that, and those are the rules of play. Accept it or stay out.

Toddinjax has posted THE BEST admonishment to drugs in sports ever.

william wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:51 pm Gale is too clever by half. "communist New Hampshire"? I'd say "risible," but I don't know if it's in his vocabulary.

Wow! They let William post to the internet from Lock-down at his asylum - seems this inmate can still type even under the influence of thorazine. Well, that's your tax dollars at work for the socialist "safety net," even the clinically insane have computer access. How does one use a keyboard while confined in a straight-jacket?

"Risible": To invoke laughter by all readers.

Poor gale! The things his envy compels him to write!

william wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:27 am Poor gale! The things his envy compels him to write!

Poor William - locked up! In William's current UNENVIOUS situation, locked in a communist Insane Asylum, his probation officer still allows him to post his apologies to the internet. His electroshock treatments seem to be helping his chronic alcoholism, but he is still a prohibited person from owning a firearm under Federal Title 26§922 United States Code.

Should William escape his confinement, please contact New Hampshire communist politbureau members for his continued indoctrination and thorazine regimen.

DO NOT APPROACH THIS DANGEROUS SOCIALIST!

ADHD drugs for attention deficit, like Focalin and Adderell, definitely your temporal shooting ability.

Got hold of a few Focalin tablets. Tried it out. It is definitely cheating when it comes down to shooting. Within half hour, you are completely focused on task at hand. Focus on front sight? No problem, can focus on that front sight for minutes without tiring. Smooth trigger ? No problem, finger goes super smooth.

Just that Focalin try out on 10m range, it easily increased 10-15 points. But after that try out, I still find it more fun to struggle through the fundamentals el natural. It is more fun and challenging.

But do those ADHD stuff work on the range? They DEFINITELY work, but cheapen the score.

seamaster wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:29 am ADHD drugs for attention deficit, like Focalin and Adderell, definitely your temporal shooting ability.

Got hold of a few Focalin tablets. Tried it out. It is definitely cheating when it comes down to shooting. Within half hour, you are completely focused on task at hand. Focus on front sight? No problem, can focus on that front sight for minutes without tiring. Smooth trigger ? No problem, finger goes super smooth.

Just that Focalin try out on 10m range, it easily increased 10-15 points. But after that try out, I still find it more fun to struggle through the fundamentals el natural. It is more fun and challenging.

But do those ADHD stuff work on the range? They DEFINITELY work, but cheapen the score.

For the person without ADD or ADHD, the use of ADD medication provides an increase in focus/concentration that enhances performance beyond the non-ADD shooter's natural ability. The same is true with non-ADD students using ADD medications for taking examinations. However, if you do have a legitimate ADD diagnosis, the use of ADD meds does not provide an advantage in the sense that it does with the non-ADD person. It just brings you to where you would be if you didn't have ADD or ADHD. Under the WADA Code there is a therapeutic use exemption that recognizes the situation that I just outlined. I haven't checked to see if ADD medication therapeutic use exemptions have been granted for any sport.

That said, abuse of ADD medications by competitors not suffering from ADD is rife in some sports. In FIDE sanctioned chess, the WADA code applies and players can be subjected to drug testing at competitions and out of competition. An anonymous survey was done perhaps five years ago amongst players in the large German chess league. Close to 80% of those surveyed admitted to using ADD meds when engaged in league play. I doubt that any of them had an ADD diagnosis.

seamaster wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:29 am Got hold of a few Focalin tablets. Tried it out. It is definitely cheating when it comes down to shooting.

So, did you have a prescription for those, or are you admitting to a Felony in writing?

I guess that's this whole elucidated concept of "RULES."

atomicgale wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:32 pm

PirateJohn wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:26 pm As someone who has battled mental illness my entire adult life and who has also worked as a forensic toxicologist, do not mess around with psychiatric medication unless it is prescribed by a doctor for a specific condition. Psychiatric medicines can have terrible effects on people who don't have the conditions they're used to treat.

Nah . . . just mix a bunch of your friends "Meds" in a bowl & eat 'em like M&Ms . . . then see what happens next . . . .

FYI. Those that are confined voluntarily or involuntarily dont call them M & M s. They are referred to as Skittles.

Looking over the 2021 WADA doc and List:

Cortizone.....compete in pain or else
Insulin .... Go into diabetic shock and die or else
Prednisone ... Scores of medical uses on AND off label. Use a substitute...guess what..there are none WADA legal
Tamoxifin ..... Ladies, have an early breast cancer diagnosis ....too bad. Die.

Yes there are medical exemptions, the process is convoluted, time constrained and appeals are hard to get given the documentation, statements, testimony, other evidence and date of competition.

Most prohibitions are in AND out of competition there is testing, testing, testing required.

Am not a medical professional but I do stay at Holiday Inn Express.

Xman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:07 pm Looking over the 2021 WADA doc and List:

Cortizone.....compete in pain or else
Insulin .... Go into diabetic shock and die or else
Prednisone ... Scores of medical uses on AND off label. Use a substitute...guess what..there are none WADA legal
Tamoxifin ..... Ladies, have an early breast cancer diagnosis ....too bad. Die.

Yes there are medical exemptions, the process is convoluted, time constrained and appeals are hard to get given the documentation, statements, testimony, other evidence and date of competition.

Most prohibitions are in AND out of competition there is testing, testing, testing required.

Am not a medical professional but I do stay at Holiday Inn Express.

Seems like people on medication are not meant to compete at olympic level. I guess, generally, it is no problem since in many branches athletes are very young. Yet, appears to be an issue with shooting where athletes over 40 is not infrequent.

What if I eat some of these pills my Veterinarian prescribed to my Dog to calm him down? Bet this stuff ain't on the list!

atomicgale wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:27 am What if I eat some of these pills my Veterinarian prescribed to my Dog to calm him down? Bet this stuff ain't on the list!

I guess it would be on the list since not the commercial brands but active ingredient compounds or molecules are stated.
Btw, I am not a medical doctor.

emre-nur wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:26 am Btw, I am not a medical doctor.

Oh, I guess that means you're a Veterinarian . . . .