TargetTalk

"Cheat? Yeah, right.

. . . shoot the gun . . . ."

Naaah, that guy is having too much fun grousing. He did tell us what a crappy forum we have, and how knowledgeable shooters don't contribute.

Trigger choice is all about the feel that you are looking for. It has absolutely nothing to do with the accuracy of the pistol. It does have to do with how the shooter feels about his gun. The way someone feels about their pistol can affect their performance. By all means shoot what you like, what you enjoy and are proud to own. The shooters winning will still win with either trigger in the same model pistol. Trigger finger sensitivity varies from shooter to shooter and it is all about what you like. Whichever way you go, the one that feels better you will be happier with. Since shooting is very mental, if you are more comfortable, you may shoot better, but the electric/mechanical feature has absolutely nothing to do with the capability of the pistol.

THE RUSSIANS DIDN'T CHEAT!
They out engineered the rule book.
I am in awe of some things they do to gain an advantage allowed by sloppy regulations.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapo ... psidedown/

spektr wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:18 am THE RUSSIANS DIDN'T CHEAT!
They out engineered the rule book.
I am in awe of some things they do to gain an advantage allowed by sloppy regulations.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapo ... psidedown/

The comment about the Russian's cheating was NOT about this dodge, it was about using a remote triggering device in free pistol, which is only possible with an electronic trigger. I don't think it was nearly as early as 1954 as stated, but I can't quickly find a reference to it.

A Russian was also caught scamming electric scoring in fencing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Onishchenko

oddjack wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:55 am E lets you cheat. If it was me I would ban it in any gun competitions.

That is why JIN Jongoh word record of 594 was done with a mechanical LP10. Not an LP10e... (and competing against eletronic Morinis, etc...)

The eletronic version has more moving parts. It has the same kind of mechanism, the diference being that the trigger piece acts on a switch, that then sends (beaks) a signal through a board, and then the board sends a signal to the solenoid that acts on the sear itself. More complex = more possibility to fail.

I have never seen a mechanical trigger fail for any reason other than the owner messing with it. Electronic triggers, I can recall at least 6 from memory in the last 10 years.

The only advantage that a eletronic trigger brings is the ability to keep the pressure once the sear lets go. There is no jump due to the lack of resistence by the sear. Even then, a closely ajusted trigger stop should be sufficient to overcome that on a mechanical trigger.

It's the shooter that matters, not the pistol.

It takes a lot of time to sink in, but it's the simple truth...

Hope this helps

oddjack wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:36 pm atomicgale

I am debating between the two you mentioned. kinda... Morini 200EI and Steyr Evo

Morini doesnt have an absorber, and less grip adjustment. The steyr has both. Did these make any difference when you tried the two? ( Morini 162 is about the same)

Either pistol will out perform the shooter. For example, regardless of a tungsten absorber or grip adjustment, compact vs. long barrel, Morini vs. Steyr, I was still totally capable of shooting two perfect SIX RINGS on day one at Ft. Benning, each perfectly placed North and South in the Cardinal directions. "TK" two lanes down also landed two perfect SIX RINGS, each perfectly placed West and East. Then, day two, with the best equipment on the planet, I landed a FOUR! (Shot #12). You can see that conspicuous spec across the gallery! Yes, that lauded a load of laughs at the finals (as I'm sitting in the bleachers) - the old "There was a bug on the target" excuse corralling much respect.

In fact "The notorious FOUR" was the best shot I've ever taken - learned more from that one shot - shooter fatigue, concentration, attention to detail, and just having fun!

. . . set the gun down . . . .

REPEAT.

"Electronic triggers are faster than mechanical triggers."

Very dubious statement, I think even incorrect.

pbrejsa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:34 pm "Electronic triggers are faster than mechanical triggers."

Very dubious statement, I think even incorrect.

Not sure if it's incorrect.
A mechanical trigger can be slower the way a combustion engine is slower than an electric car.

I know some of the gurus are gonna jump on that statement. But what would be the whole point of making it electronic if it wasn't? Electronic is a faster and cleaner break. Whether it can be measured in terms of scores remains to be seen.

pbrejsa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:34 pm "Electronic triggers are faster than mechanical triggers."

Very dubious statement, I think even incorrect.

OK, now its time to get technical.
Airpistol locktime is made up of a number of components.
-The release of the sear.
-The travel time of the firing action.
-The opening of the valve.
Please note the difference between Electrinic Triggers and Electronic firing mechanism.
Electronic firing mechanisms are the world of livefire Rifles and Cannons.
Air pistols have electronic triggers, a electronic means of releasing the sear with a mechanical firing action. (Hammer and Spring)
they do not have an electronically fired action.
A mechanical pistol at trigger point has no locktime to release the sear only trigger pressure followed by a trigger break.
A electronic trigger at trigger point has a circuit activation followed by a solenoid travel time to sear release. (about 0.025-0.030 ms).
Then the sear is released, the trigger pressure felt at switch activation changes very little (no felt trigger collapse but may have a slight
micro switch feel depending on model).
The action travel time (Spring/Hammer) will be the same in a mechanical or electronic trigger of the same model pistol.
Locktimes vary from firearm to firearm.
Typical
-Slow 5-7ms -Fast 1.3-1.7ms -Muzzle loaders 9-12ms
Electronic triggers are all about FEEL.

..........I've often wondered if someone couldn't use a photocell system instead of a switch. The trigger could move an opaque piece in between an LED and a photodetector, blocking the light........

Like the Walther FP?

Still would not change the action time. What is needed is very quick acting electronic valve.....

David M is right on the money.
Eletronic triggers are slower in lock time, compared to a mechanical one.
The advantage of an eletronic trigger is the consistency and lack of jump when the sear releases.

i agree with rmca » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:13 pm, yes, it's true,
from the principle the electric trigger will always be against the mechanical delay and this can not be changed

This may be a tangent, but at the risk of derailing the original question further, does anyone offer a air RIFLE with an electronic trigger? If not, why?

marky-d

marky-d wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:09 pm does anyone offer a air RIFLE with an electronic trigger?

Yes

marky-d wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:09 pm This may be a tangent, but at the risk of derailing the original question further, does anyone offer a air RIFLE with an electronic trigger? If not, why?

marky-d

https://youtu.be/d0J9FynjSR8?t=710

look what happens with an electronic rifle in a final. starts at minute 11:50

Ouch! I suspect the French gal whose Walther died is shooting a mechanical trigger now...

One thing I like about my Morini electronic triggers is that they use replaceable batteries. Given that you can get thousands of shots from a set of easily replaced batteries, I don't see any upside to using rechargeable batteries. Between the batteries and the charging system, they have a host of possible issues.

Ouch indeed!!

The "points of failure" that an eletronic trigger adds is the only argument that makes me be on the fence about them.
I'm not yet convinced that the added consistency, and lack of jump when the sear breaks, is enough to make a diference in one's score.
But the possible failure of the system sure does make a dent in the final result...

(and being eletronic it will fail... it's just a matter of when...) ;)

I have many 10's of thousands of clicks on two Morinis, an air pistol and a free pistol. Neither has ever failed except the free pistol, which had two issues in over 20 years. One was operator error (I didn't get the battery securely in place, and the recoil knocked it loose), and the other was a mechanical problem (sear wear).

It really shouldn't be that hard, but I don't know of any other manufacturer that has as solid, or lengthy, a track record as Morini. I'm not sure I would trust anyone else's.

Beside reliability, the other issue is parts/service. If they keep messing with the design, what are the odds you can get replacement parts/assemblies in 10 years? I feel really bad for all the people with Pardini SPE's that are of questionable reliability and are (I assume) no longer supported. Walther electronic free pistols are another example of an orphaned technology.

My only problem with Electronic triggers is that they don't feel good to me..... I can get the feel I enjoy out of a mechanical trigger much more easily.