TargetTalk

These people who are mucking with the rules and stuffing up our sport, They do know we have guns right??

So is anyone going to do anything about it, or just happy to rant here?

A message has gone to our Federation (USAS) and ISSF rep and the reply I got was:

"Thanks. We will consider."

How about you send a note too?.....

Will do.

For every issue we gripe about here that involves our interest in the ISSF rules and/or procedures process, my (wild) guess is that the member Federations receive about 10-15 comments from different members.
We are mostly a silent, and when we do comment - mostly irritating minority. No wonder they feel free to do what they want.

And that is only from the readers on this forum.

When we recently went thru the process of revising the USAS bylaws, we had a whole 45 signatures from members (shooters, coaches, administrators) for the thing. Something like taping weights on a gun .... most will roll over & go back to sleep.

Hello,

Crazy question:

The setup like photo below ( Daria Vdovina, RUS) very commom amongst shooters are permitted as far as I presume.

But, If for some reason the Shooter decides to cover this lead weights with a kind of tape to avoid dust or for aesthetics, Is this not permitted???

FabioRifleRio wrote:Crazy question:
The setup like photo below ( Daria Vdovina, RUS) very commom amongst shooters are permitted as far as I presume.
But, If for some reason the Shooter decides to cover this lead weights with a kind of tape to avoid dust or for aesthetics, Is this not permitted???

An interpretation question on an unclear interpretation.
This will again be one of those decisions that can and will be made at the match by someone who has a different interpretation from someone who had their own interpretation at a previous match.

Plead: "But, But ....I had it this way in Munich!"
Reply: "This ain't Munich"

====================================
Oh yeah ... and what about all those sliding weights on the barrels, air cylinders and rails .... OBVIOUSLY not PERMANENT

jhmartin wrote: Plead: "But, But ....I had it this way in Munich!"
Reply: "This ain't Munich"

This reminds me. These rule interpretations were posted after WC Munich this year but they were enforcing the "no tape" rule at equipment control there anyway. A teammate of mine was told to ditch the tape on his rifle. I asked a jury member when the rule had changed and was told "last year". That sounded wrong to me, but rather than pick a fight with the jury we disappeared and came back later with the weights screwed on. It passed.

From observations:

Weights taped on: Not OK
Weights stuck on with doubled-sided tape: OK
Weights screwed on: OK
Weights on one of the rifle's rails: OK
Weights on a bar attached to the rifle: OK

Your mileage may vary with another equipment control member and/or jury.

Oh, and the war on tape isn't just against weights. Another teammate of mine was told (at a different competition) to remove tape from his buttplate which he was using as a position marker. It appears that any visible tape on the rifle will come in for scrutiny. Of course, in Rio later this year all the rifles and kit will have tape all over them to mask manufacturer markings and that will be OK. Go figure...

Thanks for those observations! Is adding or removing a weight ok? Like a forend rail weight

IRLConor wrote:Oh, and the war on tape isn't just against weights. Another teammate of mine was told (at a different competition) to remove tape from his buttplate which he was using as a position marker. It appears that any visible tape on the rifle will come in for scrutiny. Of course, in Rio later this year all the rifles and kit will have tape all over them to mask manufacturer markings and that will be OK. Go figure...

Hmmm. stickers are .... tape ... well, small pieces of. So small pieces of tape are OK? (grin?)

Thanks for the update ...

redschietti wrote:Thanks for those observations! Is adding or removing a weight ok? Like a forend rail weight

They're totally OK, at least for 50m. I have a MEC Stabilizer weight bar projecting out the front of my stock and it didn't get a second look. It got measured at ISCH, but other than that it has attracted zero attention.

The focus appears to be on tape, not weights. I suspect that this is either a) purely aesthetic or b) some competitor was trying (again!) to evade the chest rest rules by taping a huge weight to the rear of the stock and claiming that it was within the dimensions of the stock.

If it's b) it'll all change again with the 2017 rules anyway. I've heard rumours of how they're going to control the dimensions of the rear end of air rifles but nothing concrete yet.

jhmartin wrote:Hmmm. stickers are .... tape ... well, small pieces of. So small pieces of tape are OK? (grin?)

This makes me very tempted to ask the EC folks to use the EC sticker to stick on a tiny weight. Just out of badness. :D

IRLConor wrote:This makes me very tempted to ask the EC folks to use the EC sticker to stick on a tiny weight. Just out of badness. :D

Touché! :)

IRLConor wrote:
... b) some competitor was trying (again!) to evade the chest rest rules by taping a huge weight to the rear of the stock and claiming that it was within the dimensions of the stock.

Is this Feinwerkbau accessorie weight, screwed to the lower part of the stock, permitted?

Yes it is. (for now)
1) it is not coming off of the lower part of of the buttplate
2) it is within the 40mm side to side off of the centerline of the bore

The one coming off of the lower part of the buttplate (facing forward) is not.

That said, this is one of the manufacturers "loopholes" ... the so called "technical doping" ... and the placement of the weights on the new Anschutz "ONE" stock.
The ISSF wanted to do away with these and looks like they got twerked and came up with this new 130mm rule.

Do they really, really think this is puts other stocks at a disadvantage? Apparently so ....

jhmartin wrote:Yes it is. (for now)
1) it is not coming off of the lower part of of the buttplate
2) it is within the 40mm side to side off of the centerline of the bore

The one coming off of the lower part of the buttplate (facing forward) is not.

That said, this is one of the manufacturers "loopholes" ... the so called "technical doping" ... and the placement of the weights on the new Anschutz "ONE" stock.
The ISSF wanted to do away with these and looks like they got twerked and came up with this new 130mm rule.

Do they really, really think this is puts other stocks at a disadvantage? Apparently so ....

I've asked why the manufacturers are still producing these forward facing extension weights mounted to the buttplate.
Apparently they're still legal in German domestic competitions. :/

The three "fingers" coming off the bottom of the Anschütz 9015 Precise stock look like something to work around the "chest rest" rule. I thought they'd be banned in a later rule revision but what I heard was that they're going to move to a measurement box style of control for the rear end of air rifles. In other words, if the rear end of your rifle fits in the box then you're good to go. That wasn't a rumour from anyone official though, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was changed or dropped before the next version of the rulebook comes out.

bruce wrote:I've asked why the manufacturers are still producing these forward facing extension weights mounted to the buttplate.
Apparently they're still legal in German domestic competitions. :/

Oh, heck yeah.... Federations are giving some pushback, but ISSF is standing firm ... they can do no wrong.

I would not be surprised if BOTH the 130mm and the bottom of buttplate are implemented .... the whole deal is to get rid of those type of chest rests.

IRLConor wrote:

jhmartin wrote: Plead: "But, But ....I had it this way in Munich!"
Reply: "This ain't Munich"

This reminds me. These rule interpretations were posted after WC Munich this year but they were enforcing the "no tape" rule at equipment control there anyway. A teammate of mine was told to ditch the tape on his rifle. I asked a jury member when the rule had changed and was told "last year". That sounded wrong to me, but rather than pick a fight with the jury we disappeared and came back later with the weights screwed on. It passed.

From observations:

Weights taped on: Not OK
Weights stuck on with doubled-sided tape: OK
Weights screwed on: OK
Weights on one of the rifle's rails: OK
Weights on a bar attached to the rifle: OK

Your mileage may vary with another equipment control member and/or jury.

Oh, and the war on tape isn't just against weights. Another teammate of mine was told (at a different competition) to remove tape from his buttplate which he was using as a position marker. It appears that any visible tape on the rifle will come in for scrutiny. Of course, in Rio later this year all the rifles and kit will have tape all over them to mask manufacturer markings and that will be OK. Go figure...

Can you elaborate on the no tape on the butt plate?

mbradley wrote:Can you elaborate on the no tape on the butt plate?

I didn't see it since it was at a competition I wasn't at. As I understand it he had a piece of tape on his buttplate to mark where it should be adjusted for another position.

That was probably an overzealous RO/Jury member but it's always a matter of balance as to when you should or should not pick a fight with them.

Sound Enhanced Hearing Protection

This sounds like an oxymoron to me. I as always under the impression that hearing protection was there to "attenuate" sound (as in reduce it). So how do you get both attenuation and enhancement in the same device?

Yes, yes, I know! They are talking about playing music or positive reinforcement recordings into the shell-like ears of the shooters.

What would be an improvemnt would be to have elctronic noise cancellation of the ahot discharge sound by some innovative noise filtering. The ISSF could have found much better wording.