TargetTalk

That picture is a little misleading. The KK500 does have an in-built rail that bridges the action. The model on show in Munich had an additional rail bolted on as a raiser block.

Apparently the action & stock combo is so shallow that a 4mm raiser is desirable even in prone.

Even though we at Walther don't publish any "official" statement regarding the KK500 (simply because the series production hasn't started yet), I just want to add, that the shown rail at the KK500 is seperate. You simply need blocks or rails to mount your sights because the action lies much deeper in the stock then for example with the KK300 for a low profile of the barrel axis. This shorter distance between your supporting hand and the barrel axis seems to be a clear advantage for all sling shooters.

The one-piece system housing is stiffer than "others" (some, hm, not so stable housings were the real reason for the invention of the Vibrake & and other rails). You can simply swith the shorter 500 action from right to left, and it's also possible to load from right or left, because the housing has two openings. You can then also switch the extractor and throw the cases to the left-hand side, if you like. So for changing the KK500 from a right-hand- to a full left-hand version, you only need a left-hand grip, because the cheekpiece is ambidextrous (but with two different angles to choose).
See https://www.facebook.com/thomas.bretsch ... 054182040/ (here without extra rail, the housing has a scale, too - I'm not sure if anyone here can see the video, sorry)

This is our "state of the art" today, but technical details are still subject to change of course. Availability: maybe autumn 2015, no price info yet (except "below the average swiss level")

So, methosb, perhaps rethink (or simply wait), if that action design is really "dumb"...

Lets go way back in history, sort of to my childhood:
How many people remember the Winchester Model 52. The Model 52 action was admired and prized for its smooth operation and short bolt. OK, so the triggers were just OK and until you got to the E model the stocks were less than 3P friendly but the rifle was easy to load and with enough metal in the receiver to make a battleship the rifles were quite stable and accurate.

The European rifles took over, with advanced stock design but most had long skinny bolts and somewhat awkward loading. With the long skinny bolt came a long receiver and plenty of room to mount the sight right on top. Now, I think the trend toward short bolts and easier loading is great but as many people have pointed out... Where do you mount the rear sight?

Look back to the old Winchester 52, the sight was mounted on a block that hung off the left side of the receiver. While such a system might mess up the ambidextrous ejection of the KK500 with the trend toward shorter bolts is there no reason that sights could not go back to being mounted on the side of the receiver?

Just my thoughts
'Dude

Ulrich Eichstädt wrote: This is our "state of the art" today, but technical details are still subject to change of course. Availability: maybe autumn 2015, no price info yet (except "below the average swiss level")

So, methosb, perhaps rethink (or simply wait), if that action design is really "dumb"...

Time to save up money. If it is an electronic, I will wait in line...

It will be interesting to see which of these two new offerings come closest to Bleiker-like performance and which features offer the best improvement in accuracy:

Anschutz with the Bleiker-like split chamber and threaded barrel
Walther with three locking lugs and a stiffer action

Neither have a 6 o'clock firing pin (which the Grunig does) but the Grunig doesn't have the split chamber either.

I wish I'd paid more attention to the Walther while I was in Munich but they seemed to be pushing the Left/Right bolt innovation which isn't really relevant to me as a prone shooter. I just hope that it will be made capable of dropping into the older Walther stocks - the new stock may be fine but those pivoting links to shift the back end worry me...

I guess we'll see once they are available and "shot in" and producing results at Eley/RWS/Lapua's test ranges.

K.

The Bleiker, new Walther and G&E all sit lower in the stock. They don't sit higher up than the Anschutz so there is no problem with them having rails on top. The Bleiker/Walther/G&E have much more clearance between the chamber and the rail so that you can get your fingers in there. Even with that Centra bridge that gives your fingers a little more space going over the breech of the Anschutz, it still won't provide that much space to get your fingers in there.

So the action design is still dumb. It is a top loading action that people are going to have to try to use as a side loading action and will find it difficult.

KennyB wrote:Neither have a 6 o'clock firing pin

I think the KK500 has a 6 o'clock firing pin. My memory's a little hazy though so I could be wrong.

IRLConor wrote:

KennyB wrote:Neither have a 6 o'clock firing pin

I think the KK500 has a 6 o'clock firing pin. My memory's a little hazy though so I could be wrong.

6 o'clock firing pin and option for E-Trigger http://www.carl-walther.de/cw.php?lang= ... &sub=sport

Can't wait to see it in person!

Thanks, I stand corrected - I should have paid more attention in Munich.
In that case I think Anschutz have missed a trick, but I guess the proof will be in the groups.

I'd better think about adjusting my shooting budget for next year...

K

Unless the 54.30 is a LOT more accurate (unlikely I would have thought) or a LOT cheaper I think Anschutz will be kicking themselves, Walther seem to be a 'generation' ahead of their rival now.

Hehe... perhaps Anschutz will keep the pricing competitive and learn to include damn sights as an enticer.

Since I started this post with the updated news on new small bore models I have to say
that the the KK500 (forget the KK300 now) looks to be my future long term buy now.

Rumor has it Anschutz is building another rifle currently since the kk500 made the 5430 look bad. However I can not verify those claims.

Prices in Poland I got from distributor:
54.30 in 1918 alu black = circa 4 000 Euros
54.30 barreled action = circa 2 400 Euros
to be expected end of June 2015

When it comes to pricing it looks like new action will be more expensive than current 1913 line. I was given above prices for 54.30 barreled action and it is priced about 20% more than 1913 barreled action.

Well "Product series 54.30" is up on the Anschutz website.
Offered in the 1918 alu / 1907 stock.

Although I think you can still buy the old super match wood stock separately
I dunnow why Anschutz don't sell it as part of a complete rifle package any more.
Surely it is better and not that much more expensive than the 1907 stock?

I noticed those dreaded words at the bottom of the page...

"Delivered with
Transport gun case MEGA, hand stop 6226, fore-end raiser block, accessory box, screw driver, Allan key, manual and test target.
Without sight set."

So I assume it comes with the extension tube but sadly (although I'm not surprised) no sights...

I also think Anschutz are being a little miserly by only including their most basic handstop. The KK300 comes with the excellent MEC handstop so the least Anschutz could do is include their premium black one.

I believe that everyone who's ruling out the 54.30 should hold their horses until both the 54.30 and the kk500 have hit the market. Sure the kk500 seems to be more of an innovation but let me give you my thoughts on how the Anschütz still could be competitive against it.

Firstly the most important thing, accuracy. The one with the better accuracy will have a clear advantage over the other. But we can't know anything about this until a lot of rifles of both models have been tested.

Then we have the pricing. It's nothing we know for sure, but it quite possible that the 54.30 will be cheaper and therefore make a more reasonable choice than the Walther for shooters with a limited budget.

And lastly I'm a little bit worried about the ambidextrous bolt on the kk500. Why? Because I don't see any proper use for it. It looks to me like a useless feature that may break and cause trouble. As a right handed shooter why would I want a rifle that fits left handed people as well? And vice versa. It could be interesting for clubs but they doesn't buy new top of the line rifles do they? The only reason I find is aftermarket for left hand shooters which is of course good but it comes with an increased price of the rifle and more things that could break.

That said I don't hold any of the two rifles favorite until I have seen them both preform.

Not affiliated but for information Intershoot have added the 54.30 in a Precise stock to their price list... £3,363...

http://www.intershoot.co.uk/acatalog/An ... -1098.html

Now that we've had the K300 in our junior program for almost a year, it certainly gets my vote for best value among our large Anschutz (through 2000-Series) inventory.



Plus: 20-click sights, shorter bolt throw, better trigger, low purchase price on the used market, better handling and balance, case, handstop and tools included.

Minus: Front sight extensions difficult, adjustable comb reach insufficient for tall riser blocks, old-fashioned front sight mounting, resale value.

Wash: Accuracy, sight repeatability, ability to shoot a range of ammunition quality well.

I've also come to like the stadia lines in the stock Walther front sight, adjustable for cant and fully indexed. Less fussy mechanically and easier to use than most spirit levels, and just as effective for inexperienced juniors.

So Bob i guess you quit shaving and now use your shaving brush to clean rifles?

It looks like new 54.30 system is going to hit the shelf very soon. I have talked to my country distributor and it says that they received rifle numbers and expect them in 3 weeks.