TargetTalk

Dan
I understand John Zurek shot his record score with a Pardini SP.
At least that was the pistol he was holding with his National Record Certificate.

A big thank you to everyone who posted.
I think a Pardini is going to be in my gun box, sometime in the future.

For now, I think the quickest, most economical route to reliability, is to put a Nelson conversion on
my wad gun. So that is what I am going to do. It is already ordered, but the scope rail is backordered
so I will have a little wait.
I was impressed that the guy I spoke with on the phone, offered to take the rail off of HIS gun, and ship that to me.
You have to love that degree of dedication to your product.

I thought at one time that I would shoot a High Standard for the rest of my life. I could find no fault with them.
But now I think my best bet is to sell them to a collector, and shoot a modern pistol.
Thanks to all...Jim

Trooperjake wrote:Dan
I understand John Zurek shot his record score with a Pardini SP.
At least that was the pistol he was holding with his National Record Certificate.

I think I saw Zurek shooting a Marvel 22 at Perry. But, He is shown shooting a Pardini when he won the indoor National title and when he recently set the indoor slow fire national record. From my perspective it looks like he shoots both. Maybe he applies the "one type" method when shooting Perry type events (all 1911?), and Pardini for 22only stuff, and probably mixes it up based on what season it is. It's great to be diverse.

I am a loyal Pardini 22 shooter. It never alibis. It's superbly accurate. Best service in the industry.
But even so, I just bought a Marvel conversion and the Springfield Custom Shop is setting it up on a new frame for me. I will experiment with shooting that when appropriate. Why not........
Maybe shooting that and a 1911 through 2700's will help me. Won't know til I try it. And if it doesn't work out, I will have a sweet Marvel to let new shooters and friends shoot who want to try bullseye.

Great thread. Well articulated opinions. Keep it up! Keep talking about the sport, sharing thoughts, and promoting to new shooters.

FYI - the "Gemtech Silencer Subsonic" 22 LR ammo is made by CCI for Gemtech and it seems to be very similar to the CCI SV (except for the extra 2 grains in the bullet). Sometimes it's more readily available than the CCI SV. It might work with your High Standard.
I signed up for a 'notify me' on the company's website (it was 'out of stock') but it wasn't too long before they sent me a case of it, and I've been very happy with it. Cycles all my semis and is quite accurate. None of my guns have silencers/suppressors even though that's the marketed purpose of that ammo.

http://www.guns.com/review/2013/10/10/l ... e-gemtech/

I thought that 22 bullets can not weigh more than 40 grains to shoot conventional pistol.

champ, I'm not sure what "conventional pistol" is. I think it is the same thing we call "bullseye, or three gun bullseye", or "2700" in my area, and there are no bullet weight restrictions. At least, none that I am aware of. Except for "service pistol" matches.

As per the NRA rule book on .22 ammunition.

3.4 .22 caliber Pistol or Revolver - Any pistol (single shot or semi-automatic) or revolver using a .22 caliber rim-fire cartridge having an overall length of not more than 1.1 inches and with lead or alloy bullet not greater than .23 inches in diameter and weighing not more than 40 grains;

Clarence

40 grains maximum. I did not know that. Thanks for clearing that up Mr. Perkins.

Right now I am waiting for delivery of the conversion unit & 25 mm Ultradot..

Hi izzy Jim, since you've replaced springs(recoil?..very important with any aging HS), I'm gonna guess

that your problem is likely magazine related. Have you contacted High Standard yet? DO NOT EMAIL Them.

Call them on the phone, and continue phoning until you do talk to a Human. http://www.highstandard.com/

I have two good functioning magazines for my HS Trophy(Hartford). One only likes CCI std and SK plus 22 lr, while

the other magazine will feed CCI, SK+, Eley Target and Eley Sport(Aguilla from Mexico), even in Timed and

Rapid fire strings; so there is some kind of Voodoo magazine functioning happening.

By the way, I'm also going to be 73 years old this coming December.

Tony

I wish somebody explained this to me earlier, so for the new bullseye shooters, here is what a calm, and wise, High master explained to me(we were talking about hammerlis, but I'll add in pardini into the paraphrase):

"it is true, that you cannot "buy" points. In this, I mean, if you picked up a pardini/hammerli, and loaded up some eley tennex....well.... of course this wouldn't correct for poor sight alignment or poor trigger control.

The reason why, i think, you see so many [masters shooting] pardinis or hammerlis, is they are exceptionally reliable. There are some other benefits to target pistols, in their 50 yard xring accuracy and recoil management features such as wieghts and such. But these go to waste without the proper application of fundementals. "

I think the truth is, you won't "shoot" better with a pardini, it will LET you shoot better, you won't have a double alibi in a rapid fire string. You can remain on your process, you won't be questioning calls, and wondering if you equipment is holding you back. -it's one less thing attacking your mental game.

Another often over looked benefit to target pistols, is their ability to grow with you. A pardini and a hammerli, I think, offer the ability to change the feel of your trigger with relative ease.

That school of thought that "you gotta keep everything the same" as it refers to grip angle and feel of each pistol.... I would wager.... if you gave Brian zinns... any one of YOUR guns, he would probably out shoot you with it... give him any grip angle, he could mentally overcome the challange. So, IF the grip angle messes with your mental game, change it, make your guns match. For me, it does attack my mental game. So, I choose NOT to accept the challenge, and put a 1911 grip on my hammerli.

so, I think, at the bottom line, I'll pay the extra bucks for a guarante of reliability, enjoy the little bells and whistles as a bonus, and most of all: dryfire-until my arm falls off. :-)

Murph wrote: I think I saw Zurek shooting a Marvel 22 at Perry.

Actually, he was shooting a Nelson Custom 1911-22 Conversion. It was delivered to him at Camp Perry by Rob Leatham the day before the match started.

I guess this post is really directed at Nelson Custom Guns. I have heard much about your conversions but yet to actually see one in person. I have always recommend a Marvel conversion to an up and coming new shooter. Many people tell me that your conversions work "better." I have a problem with "Better" because my experience with the Marvel unit 1 will shoot inside 1" at 50yd. My experience with the Marvel feed and function is also wonderful. I rarely have an alibi. When I do clean the chamber and go back at it with no problems. The Marvel is not trouble free but in my rim fire experience the only thing I have seen work more reliably is an unmodified Mk I Ruger. I guess I'm asking for the sales pitch. How is your conversion "best" for conventional pistol.
Do you plan to have a booth set up at Perry to support the shooters using a Nelson conversion during the matches? Any Camp Perry special cost savings if I decided to buy one during the nationals?
What is the cost of the basic conversion unit? How many magazines supplied? What type of magazine and how much for extra units? What sighting options are available? How does the conversion attach to the 1911? Please don't read this as me challenging you to prove anything. I'm truly interested and if something is "better" I am interested in possibly including one in my safe.

motorcycle_dan wrote:I guess this post is really directed at Nelson Custom Guns. I have heard much about your conversions but yet to actually see one in person. I have always recommend a Marvel conversion to an up and coming new shooter. Many people tell me that your conversions work "better." I have a problem with "Better" because my experience with the Marvel unit 1 will shoot inside 1" at 50yd. My experience with the Marvel feed and function is also wonderful. I rarely have an alibi. When I do clean the chamber and go back at it with no problems. The Marvel is not trouble free but in my rim fire experience the only thing I have seen work more reliably is an unmodified Mk I Ruger. I guess I'm asking for the sales pitch. How is your conversion "best" for conventional pistol.
Do you plan to have a booth set up at Perry to support the shooters using a Nelson conversion during the matches? Any Camp Perry special cost savings if I decided to buy one during the nationals?
What is the cost of the basic conversion unit? How many magazines supplied? What type of magazine and how much for extra units? What sighting options are available? How does the conversion attach to the 1911? Please don't read this as me challenging you to prove anything. I'm truly interested and if something is "better" I am interested in possibly including one in my safe.

Thanks for the interest in our unit motorcycle_dan! You ask a lot of great questions. We tried to go to Perry this year, but we are a small company and couldn't make it happen. We are planning to be there next year. We were represented by a number of shooters, including John Zurek and Rob Leatham.

The cost of our units (there are 6 variations) range from $395 for a standard barrel with a scope rail up to $465 for a threaded barrel with a fiber optic front sight. Each unit comes with 2 magazines. Bob Marvel designed our mags at the same time we were doing the design of our conversion. They are injection molded and we are the mfg (not purchased or rebranded from another company). They run $25 each. Our conversion is very similar to the MP and AA conversions (all Bob Marvel designs) but ours is Bob's latest "evolution". We are the only Conversion that Bob has ties to.

Please feel free to give me a call and I'll do my best to answer any questions you have and/or go into further detail. (I'm better at talking than typing!)

Larry
480-699-8040
http://www.nelsoncustomguns.com/store

Nelson Custom Guns wrote:

Murph wrote: I think I saw Zurek shooting a Marvel 22 at Perry.

Actually, he was shooting a Nelson Custom 1911-22 Conversion. It was delivered to him at Camp Perry by Rob Leatham the day before the match started.

Ok Larry, That explains why I have had 2 different High Masters come up and ask a ton of questions about my Nelson.

I really enjoy mine and can't say enough good things about it!

- Dave

dronning wrote: Ok Larry, That explains why I have had 2 different High Masters come up and ask a ton of questions about my Nelson.

I really enjoy mine and can't say enough good things about it!

- Dave

You just made my day... Thanks!

Larry

I have had lengthy use of Marvel Precision, Advantage Arms, and Nelson conversions.

I do not often choose conversions. But when I do, I choose Nelson.

Stay on the sights, my friends.

I am overwhelmed by the positive results this question produced.

I started out with a pistol that would not fire 20 rounds without a couple of
failures ( after 20 years of flawless service ). And now it is feeding, firing, and ejecting
CCI SV, Wolf, Sk std +, just like it is supposed to.

To top it off, I am expecting the delivery of a Nelson conversion .22 any day now.
I will tell you folks how that turns out, if there is any interest.

Mostly, I just wanted to thank everyone who advised, and encouraged me.
The postings, and private messages, helped me more than I can say.....Jim

As a lifetime expert for many years and trying to make master (I gave up, lol) I found I could never shoot the .45s trigger very well. Master .22 scores and barely expert .45 scores made me a 2500 shooter for years. My meager advice? Buy the best .22 you can afford. I've shot H/Ss , Hammerli 215s,Walther GSP and now I'm trying for kicks a Hammerli Xesse. Frankly, all my master .22 scores were with the Hammerli 215s. Amaizing accuracy. amazing trigger. The new Xesse seems good. Nice Larry trigger (definitely get that done). It seems a bit light, so I'm going to get the slide on scope mount for it. I unfortunately sold the 215 yrs ago. I bought a .22 LR conversion for my Walther OSP and fiqured it would be good, but 50 yard accuracy is wanting and the trigger is no where near the Hammerli 215s. Although the Marvel accuracy is terrific, you still have to shoot that trigger. If you have no trigger problems, your lucky then buy the Marvel. If not, then ante up, you wont regret it.

I'm like you, an old 74 year old BE shooter. I used to shoot lots of bullseye starting with a High Standard Tropy, Smith 41 and eventually a Hammerli 208s. After 25-30 years of that, I moved out of state where target shooting was next to non-existent. So I sold everything (but kept the 41). A few years ago, I moved to FL and found some informal bullseye shooting. Rather than using the 41, I bought a Ruger 22/45 and installed a Volquartsen trigger kit. While the trigger is decent, but not perfect, the gun shoots remarkably well. Most of all, I've never had an alibi with it. I shoot CCI Std all the time.

I didn't want to use the 41, since it's an older model and in cherry condition, but I did take it out once thinking that I could score better with it. I forgot that the grip is too big for me and it's pretty heavy to hold up there. Well, back to the Ruger. I still score in the 850s out of 900 in our outdoor matches at 50 and 25 yards with it. We always poo-pooed Rugers in the old days, but I have a new respect for it. The 41 is now up for sale because I probably wont shoot it again.

I don't feel that the 1911 platform makes the best bullseye gun. There are too many better ones. If you have the dough, get a Pardini. The two stage triggers of the European guns can't be beat.

I read that a lot of people suggest a Pardini I have one and it is great. It is very adjustable so you can make it fit you. One feature that most people do not talk about is the ability to change the grip angle from very "European style" angle to straight up "1911 style" with one screw. This is only on the stock Pardini grips not aftermarket grips. Couple this with a trigger that you can make one or two stage, roll or crisp, heavy or light pull or anything in between. The trigger can be moved forward, backward, canted, moved off center, pretty much where ever you need it. The gun balance of the gun can be changed by adding or subtracting weights and the recoil pulse can be changed by placement of springs and weights, not that a 22 has much recoil. This is a gun for the shooter that does not want to compromise on how the gun fits you.