TargetTalk

j-team wrote:

JamesH wrote:I used to enjoy whipping my IPSC friends with their tricked-out hi-capacity .45s using my as-issued Browning 9mm......

Didn't think you were allowed .45s in Aus anymore?

That was back when I was in the UK.

I don't belittle people, I find its the idiots who mock me with my feeble popgun and its miserable five round magazine.

The nub of the problem is shooting has ceased to be about hitting the target, its now about looking cool as you blaze away and your friends film you for youtube.
My club has members who don't bother to retrieve their target or worry about where there shots went. As long as they've fired their gun they're happy.

JamesH wrote: The nub of the problem is shooting has ceased to be about hitting the target, its now about looking cool as you blaze away and your friends film you for youtube.
My club has members who don't bother to retrieve their target or worry about where there shots went. As long as they've fired their gun they're happy.

You have that right, James! I can't understand why the goal is to get as many rounds downrange as quickly as possible at a huge steel plate 8 feet away. With the rapidly increasing costs of ammo, it makes even less sense.

While car analogies are often a bad idea... with this one it fits I think. The bigger the vehicle (think Escalade, Hummer) the more likely it is to be idling for a long while as the driver catches up on text messages, while fuel cost just goes up and up. It's the same simple dick measuring contest where the more one can afford to waste in an ostentatious way the more superior one's position in a culture where cash is king. This is why calibre is seen as all-important for 'self-defense' which is a situation that'll never arise for most gun owners. Never mind precision shot placement, it's all about the size of the boom, baby.

A couple of observations.

Target shooters tend to take a long time to run through their ammo, bring their own and if it's centerfire they usually try to take home their brass for reloading.

The indoor ranges I have been at have had problems with the target transport cables being shot off. I was around at a range in Minnesota were the range officer was all over a shooter with a defense pistol for raising his pistol higher than horizontal.

It doesn't appear that many shooters have ever had any formal training.

Edited to add: A common attitude is purchase equals proficiency. Like the gun shop joke goes, "Why do I need a box of 50 rounds when the firearm I just purchased holds 8?"

Maybe we need to back up a bit here - if the range at Bud's depended solely on "precision shooters", they'd have closed long ago. If someone is having fun blowing through $50 worth of ammo in 10 minutes or less, it's up to him to decide what his definition of "fun" is. And he is subsidizing my interpretation of fun which is no more valid in itself than his. Of course, that does not excuse stupidity or carelessness, but of the hundreds of shooters I've shared the range with, very, very few were egregiously stupid so naturally they stand out. Of course, there are occasionally actions contrary to range rules, but the RO's there are good about spiking that behavior and following up with gun handling lessons for noobs.

As far as generalizing about guns and anatomic adequacy goes, I've got a .22-.38-.45 bullseye trio but I recently bought a beautiful blue S&W 586 and I didn't think about penis size even once when I was deciding to buy it. I bought it because a .357 MAKES A LOT OF NOISE AND IT'S FUN TO SHOOT. And it happens to be factory trick for silhouette so it has a 4-position adjustable front sight on a 6" barrel which looks way cool.

Roger

JamesH wrote:My club has members who don't bother to retrieve their target or worry about where there shots went. As long as they've fired their gun they're happy.

Yup, same at my club. I often see someone shooting a target that has hundreds of unpatched holes in it and I wonder why they are bothering!

RandomShotz wrote:Maybe we need to back up a bit here - if the range at Bud's depended solely on "precision shooters", they'd have closed long ago. If someone is having fun blowing through $50 worth of ammo in 10 minutes or less, it's up to him to decide what his definition of "fun" is. And he is subsidizing my interpretation of fun which is no more valid in itself than his. Of course, that does not excuse stupidity or carelessness, but of the hundreds of shooters I've shared the range with, very, very few were egregiously stupid so naturally they stand out. Of course, there are occasionally actions contrary to range rules, but the RO's there are good about spiking that behavior and following up with gun handling lessons for noobs.

As far as generalizing about guns and anatomic adequacy goes, I've got a .22-.38-.45 bullseye trio but I recently bought a beautiful blue S&W 586 and I didn't think about penis size even once when I was deciding to buy it. I bought it because a .357 MAKES A LOT OF NOISE AND IT'S FUN TO SHOOT. And it happens to be factory trick for silhouette so it has a 4-position adjustable front sight on a 6" barrel which looks way cool.

Roger

Agreed! Especially the comment on the sight on that 586 ... I sold one (an 8") to a friend years ago ... regret it to this day!

JamesH wrote:My club has members who don't bother to retrieve their target...

I had the same experience when I first started shooting BE. An old-timer there would shoot about 50-75 rounds at a single bull. When I asked him why he didn't change targets he said,

"Why should I? All I need to make sure is that I don't shoot more the 3 or 4 nines and I'm good. Besides, it saves money on targets."

LOL

And that was pretty much the reality of it ... the guy hardly ever missed. Decades later I'm still jealous!

Guys, don't get me wrong, I never belittle any shooters, good; bad or indifferent, as a matter of fact I tends to mind my own business as others bangs away, some will show interest in my free/target pistol or target rifle, quite often I'll let them had a go at it, and a few shooters will ask me questions regarding competitive shooting and I always try to answer to the best of my knowledge.

OTOH some will look at my targets, pack up and leave, BTW I also enjoy shooting my .45 ACP .357 mag. 9mm....the difference is I want to hit my target dead center everytime.

"I want to hit my target dead center everytime."

Sounds like my Marine DI lovingly slapping the back of my head...

Gerard wrote:While car analogies are often a bad idea... with this one it fits I think. The bigger the vehicle (think Escalade, Hummer) the more likely it is to be idling for a long while as the driver catches up on text messages, while fuel cost just goes up and up. It's the same simple dick measuring contest where the more one can afford to waste in an ostentatious way the more superior one's position in a culture where cash is king.

Conspicuous consumption has always been a part of society.
Now that its found its way into shooting we're in trouble, maybe it will fade away, maybe the manufacturers and dealers will pump it as long as they can. In some ways its subsidising us so maybe its not so bad.

An old-timer there would shoot about 50-75 rounds at a single bull. When I asked him why he didn't change targets he said,

"Why should I? All I need to make sure is that I don't shoot more the 3 or 4 nines and I'm good. Besides, it saves money on targets."

There's nothing wrong with that, its not 10s which win the match, its 7s which lose it, and volume practice has its place.

If a range owner is saying we are a pain what is that saying about us. At my range I am the only competive Bullseye shooter but people approach me all the time looking at my box, gear, and guns. The next thing I know is they want me to shoot their gun to see what it can do. I bet the same could be said about 99% of the people I shoot against each week so maybe the range owner ran into a premadona and riuned it for the rest of you.

As far as other types of shooting, have you tried them. Years ago I shoot a lot of steel plate matches and it was nothing to go thru a 1000 rounds a week getting ready for the match. When I shot Bullseye back then 5 shots in 10 seconds was nothing, I was cleaning targets, taking the mag out and putting the gun down while the other guys were still shooting. Now that the Steel matches have dried up and I'm getting older Air Pistol is the challenge. I started shooting air a few years ago and at home worked my way into the 50s and got stuck. That is when I found this froum and started reading and now I'm in the 20s. Maybe it's time to get the comp gun out again because there is no time to think in Steel shooting.

What I'm trying to say is we need to be the ambassadors of our sport, treat others the way we want to be treated, encourage those who want to learn and help those who want to get invloved. How did you get into competive shooting, were they one of the nicest people you ever met or a pr k. If you think I'm kidding just look down the line at the next match, I know I am one of the younger guys. Just remember united we stand divided we fall.

The obvious answer is a short barreled .378 Weatherby Magnum as fast as you can work the bolt.

When they get through mopping up the puddles you should be able to get some practice in.

Peter B wrote:What I'm trying to say is we need to be the ambassadors of our sport, treat others the way we want to be treated, encourage those who want to learn and help those who want to get invloved. How did you get into competive shooting, were they one of the nicest people you ever met or a pr k. If you think I'm kidding just look down the line at the next match, I know I am one of the younger guys. Just remember united we stand divided we fall.

I agree, although in my experience there are very very few people who have the slightest interest in learning to shoot, thanks to Hollywood, video games, youtube etc.
The mocking with my friends was all good natured, 25 years on we're still in touch.

I can't think of too many instances where I faced discrimination based on my status as a Competitive target shooter. Most of the people who I have talked with are in awe of what I do and would like to be able to shoot as well as most competitive shooters do.
While I don't go to any public ranges to train for 3p or Prone, In days past, I shot highpower at multiple public ranges and never got any heat for it. I would generally get a group of people who would walk over and look at all my equipment and targets.
I am obligated to think that competitive shooters are the pinnacle of human evolution of course, but the other shooters that just go to the range and shoot are extremely valuable to us as a whole. The more people that we can get exposed to safe firearms handling and respect for firearms, I think the better. With the current media opinion on shooting in general, this becomes even more important.

When at the range with shooters who are not competitive outside of friendly wagers, I think it is behoove of us to gently give advice when warranted and giving a synopsis of our sports to expose more people. Anytime I mention that I am shooting in Olympic Rifle, I am bound to get responses such as "That's an Olympic sport!? If I had know that I would totally be doing that!" or "Is that the one on the skis?" or "so are you trying to be a sniper or something?"

Matt

This reminds me of the time I was shooting my fathers 60 year old rifle with a 4X scope. A helpful guy shooting an AK47 with a monster scope came over and told me my rig was second rate and that I should be using a "ultrazoom" to achieve any decent accuracy.

Then he saw my group and walked quietly away.

Rover wrote:This reminds me of the time I was shooting my fathers 60 year old rifle with a 4X scope. A helpful guy shooting an AK47 with a monster scope came over and told me my rig was second rate and that I should be using a "ultrazoom" to achieve any decent accuracy.

Then he saw my group and walked quietly away.

A problem is its loudmouthed doofuses like that who do walk the ranges proclaiming to newbies what equipment they need and how they should shoot it. We have one in our club - barely a D grade shooter on a good day - who tells anyone and everyone very forcefully that unless they're shooting full magnum loads in the largest calibre the range permits then they're not really shooting.

I have no compunction about showing these people up. None.