TargetTalk

No, I get where you are coming from. I just didn't know if the guns were that more fine tuned between the entry & the Olympic style match pistols. I know all these pistols can out shoot the shooter from what I have read. How much "toleration" is there between the Twin Master & the P44 that you picked up? Thanks, good info!

kingsolo wrote:No, I get where you are coming from. I just didn't know if the guns were that more fine tuned between the entry & the Olympic style match pistols. I know all these pistols can out shoot the shooter from what I have read. How much "toleration" is there between the Twin Master & the P44 that you picked up? Thanks, good info!

The difference is night and day. The Röhm feels alot like shooting a .22 pistol. The FWB really feels like a top quality competition tool. It is very adjustable. Trigger work much more delicate. Longer sight radius (by about 10 cm) and longer barrel requires you to be more focussed, more agile with the shot process. A mistake, like flicking the pistol when the shot travels the barrel, or twiching the pistol in the final second before the shot is fired due to reflex, will make the shot go into the white in the FWB.

kingsolo wrote:... with probably less than a year left here, it's a daunting undertaking.

So, back on topic, is what evolution said a consensus? The more "elite" (LP-10, LP400, P44, etc) might less forgiving for a newbie, thus creating more frustration for a beginning shooter?


Thanks, and I appreciate the inputs!

When everyone's telling you that you're in an area with some of the best beer in the world, do you skip on the opportunity to drink some of it? Well, everyone is telling you that you're in one of the few pockets in the world where AP is Respected, common, and available. The level of "club" shooter over there is VASTLY superior to over here just because of the sheer time spent at the club (at least from everything I've found ~ I have not yet had the chance to find out for myself though I'm working on a month trip in 2013 to Germany). It's one of those things that anyone who's shooting AP would jump at if they had the opportunity, if you're interested even the slightest, it's an opportunity you won't likely find again and might kick yourself for missing. Another option is to ask around the base Rod & Gun club for anyone who's good with German that might want to go with you and help translate.

As for what evolution said, it's very true that a shorter sight radius appears to move/wobble less. I know on my LP10, I can shorten the sight radius about 2cm (going from memory here), not sure if the others do the same. Lately there have been sightings of shooters using the shorter "Short/Compact/Jr" models of all the popular pistols and then affixing a long front sight bar to the front of it. Gives less weight and supposedly a better balance while retaining the "fine" sight picture. If you found one of those shorter models, then you'd instantly have a short sight radius that shows little wobble and builds confidence with an easy fix for gaining a more precise sight picture down the line. I just searched though and couldn't find any photos or pieces for sale. It'd be a simple thing to machine though.

But I don't see any reason (besides finances) why a new shooter should avoid the top tier equipment. You're in a situation where you can pick up a (or several, bring them back to the US and sell what you don't want to keep, for a profit) cheaper AP than what it would cost to buy one here. Plus, with the already mentioned plethora of shooters, you can try out a Much larger selection of pistols before buying. Over here, if you're lucky, you'll be able to try a Steyr and a Morini before buying. I was able to try a Steyr as the ONE other AP shooter near me bought one. I never even saw any of the other options except online. That's "typical" for most starting shooters.

The point about starting with the Röhm, is that it is easier to shoot with then any of the shorter competition models. Trigger weight ca 1000 and sight radius of 220 mm can not be found on any competition AP. Its ease of use allowed me to work on the shot process to a certain base level, without being too dissapointed with the results. It is an important factor, at least it was for me. I beleive that rewards is important, and with a competition AP it might be frustrating to start with to the point of developing negative approach.
Also the Röhm is relatively cheap, at ca 400 €.
I also dont beleive so much in trying pistols in the club, you can get a very wrong impression from a short session in the club.
I bought the FWB due to technical parameters that felt important for me:
- having a dealer with service very close to me
- I liked the feeding more then the Styer.
- seemed to be easier to fill cylinder with hand pump

Trigger weight can be adjusted up or down on any 10m air pistol. Why you'd WANT to start at 1000g is beyond me. Set it to 540-ish and forget about it (with occasional checks to make sure it's still legal).

You should check your facts on the sight radius of the Twinmaster though, according to official specs its 300mm for the CO2 version and 355 for the PCP version, and there ARE several that are shorter than that. Keep in mind that a LOT of shooters start with the IZH46m and that's sporting a 360mm sight radius. I'm one of them and feel that it also allowed me to develop the same basics without ever being disappointed about the results. On the contrary, I knew that I was using a pistol that had a capacity I wasn't likely to outgrow.

As for testing guns, the OP is a newbie. He's going to look at things like how easy it is to feed a pellet, the balance in the hand, he Might be able to feel a difference in trigger feel. Nothing bad will come from it, well, except maybe an addiction to the sport.. lol

I also bought based on technical parameters (well, and availability on the used market). The ONE thing I wished I could change from my IZH46m was the grip. I find that the ligaments in my wrist change slightly and my sight alignment would fail. On the IZH, that means completely retuning the grip (and maybe losing how well it fits the hand), on the LP10 it's just a 1 minute process to tweak it a bit in the direction needed. If the IZH had that One feature, I'm not sure I would have bought anything else. Maybe, just maybe the nose-heavy tendency would have annoyed me enough into another pistol. And THOSE are the kinds of things that you realize while using a cheaper, less feature-rich pistol while learning. But you can still learn the same things from high-end APs too.

It's not like the OP can lose in this situation. Buy an AP over there for about 2/3rd the price (I see a Morini 162 for 600euro buy-it-now on egun right now), even if it's never shot, just drag that thing back to the states and sell it without losing one cent of the "play" money. And that's ignoring the auction prices and local sales (which always seem to be cheaper).

Hi Brian,
The things I wrote were based on my own personal experience and perspective. For me it was nice to still be able to score OK and feel rewarded with inprovements in my technique with the base pistol. With the competition pistol, it was less forgiving, and more difficult to feel incremental improvements when i just started shooting.
If I try to find an eqivelant, its like motorcycle racing. I think a starter will have it easier to learn the basics on a low powered street bike, than on a MotoGP machine. But again, it is only my personal take, I am totaly new to the sport so I am not saying that my way was the roght one.
The sight radius of the Röhm I had was 220 mm, I measured it.

Edited to say - I really doubt the value of trying different APs in the club. I think that you get very little feedback in 10 minutes of shooting. To really evaluate a pistol, you need to experience a few sessions in different conditions. That is why I was more focused on tech parameters that I can evaluate without using the pistol (like the loading method) and that will be important in the long run (like the distance of the dealer from me and his service level).

The concept of saying to a new shooter to "try different pistols to find which one suits you", I think is flawed.

It would be a very perceptive novice shooter that would be able to choose between any of the top brands and models, also given the fact that some are very adjustable in many ways and you can't really do that with other people's pistols when you're trying them.

I support the idea (if cost is not a factor) to buy the best. That usually equates to which pistols are used by the top shooters and which ones are being used to win the medals or make it to the finals. You can experiment with adjustments or buy new grips if necessary to suit yourself once you have the pistol.

Then when you have plateau-ed in your scores or have lost confidence in the pistol (remember that shooting is 90% mental and 10% physical - roughly), then look at finding a pistol that suits you better - for what ever reason.

New shooters can start shooting AP at 5m or so then increase the distance as confidence/ability increases (it also teaches the idea of sight adjustments and other adjustments to the pistol as they gain competence and not to be afraid to experiment with adjustments to the pistol as they are learning).

There are many "tricks" to learning to shoot well - the secret is to constantly match the level of the beginner's interest to his/her ability so that eventually, the full size target at 10m provides the intrinsic motivation to improve.

I'm not saying that this would work for everyone - it is but another strategy.

Man... I am really enjoying seeing the different viewpoints on this topic. I figured the answer would have been cut and dry. I can see the pros & cons of both sides of the fence here. Thanks for the tip on egun... maybe I can bring back some used pistols & flood the market with cheaper guns for the US! LOL! See if we can drive the proces down on these things stateside! :)

So, there is no one best practice here in regards to the original question. Hopefully my landlord will let me know today when/if I'll be meeting with a German coach at a range near my village. I am really looking forward to learning how to shoot these things as competitively as possible.

Thanks again for the inputs!