TargetTalk

I don't think it's clear at all.

Where do you find the need for an air pistol permit?

Rover wrote:I don't think it's clear at all.

Where do you find the need for an air pistol permit?

"NOTE: Possesion of any type of BB or Pellet gun is illegal and/ or licensed in NY City and a few other cities in NY State like Yonkers"

http://ocshooters.com/Hand/buyairgun.htm

http://www.lcav.org/content/non-powder_guns.pdf

Page 4 (Local Laws Regulating Non-powder Guns) has the specific statute involved, New York, NY., Admin. Code $ 10-131(b) (I can't produce the swiggle so replaced with $ sign)


"New York City & it's 5 boroughs: Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens & Staten Island (incl. ZIP Codes 100xx-104xx, 111xx, 112xx-114xx & 116xx) Airguns Air rifles BB guns Blank guns Blank gun ammo Blowguns Blowgun bolts & darts Crossbows Folding knives with blades longer than 4 inches Lasers Longbows"

http://www.pyramydair.com/airguns-shipp ... tions.html

Prohibited/restricted items in those zipcodes.

The statute in full:

http://www.nysrpa.org/files/nyc-admincode.pdf

A case from January this year, The People of the State of New York, Plaintiff, v Ronald Nivar, Defendant.

"Finally, the court has permitted the City of New York to file a brief as amicus curiae. The City defends its policies and procedures for obtaining a firearms license. It also argues that its ban on the possession of air pistols is constitutional, both because air pistols are not firearms and because, even if they were, the City's restrictions on them do not implicate the core Second Amendment right identified by the Supreme Court.{**30 Misc 3d at 955}"

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/Reporter/ ... _21015.htm

To advise anyone to "take a chance" with an air pistol in NYC without the required permit is to be negligent imo.

What about flying into NJ with one of our "7.5 joules" air rifles? I understand that under the NJ laws, any air gun is considered a firearm. But I also understand that there is a distinction between long arms and handguns.

So, what will happen if I land in Newark airport with a case that contains an Olympic grade air rifle? (provided that I was able to board the plane, checked the case, no air, etc....legal at the place of departure)
And at the same time, what will happen if I try to board a flight out of Newark airport with one of these? I am not a resident on NJ and don't have any gun permit of any kind (don't need them where I live...)

P.S. I understand that this is a pistol forum, but I didn't want a start a new thread when this one seems to be so close....)

Rover wrote:In the U.S., police need your permission to search your vehicle unless you are arrested. Just say no.

The fourth amendment supports your assertion, but the reality on the ground does not.

Or, if the police do respect the letter of the 4th, recall that they have extensive training in appling psychological pressure to get you to "volunteer" to the search.

william wrote:How in the world is a cop going to "notice" the air pistol in your trunk? Unless you take it out to show it off ?

If he stops you for any reason, he can find a way to search your trunk. Remember, NYC is the home of "stop and frisk", which is illegal search based on racial stereotypes (and the cop who protested against this was involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_C ... sk_program)

Here are some other ways they could search your car:

Pradeep wrote: There are many reasons why the police may search your trunk. They may pull you over at a "sobriety checkpoint" ... you get nervous during the physical field test and fail, bingo a DUI charge. There may be an escaped felon on the loose etc. ... A ... car crash...

Remember, it is the officer who gets to determine if you were "nervous," and there is always the suspicion of an "escaped felon" in the neighborhood.

You want more evidence of NYC's opinion of the constitution?

Pradeep wrote:The People of the State of New York, Plaintiff, v Ronald Nivar, Defendant.

"The City (of New York) ... argues that its ban on the possession of air pistols is constitutional, both because air pistols are not firearms and because, even if they were, the City's restrictions on them do not implicate the core Second Amendment right identified by the Supreme Court.{**30 Misc 3d at 955}"

Coker, the numbers support your observation:

coker wrote:Most cities and towns in the U.S are still considered paradise for gun owners, the exceptions are in the big cities (like New York City) , where crime is rampant.

Funny how that works, rampant crime in places where citizens are not allowed guns...

Pradeep wrote: There are many reasons why the police may search your trunk. They may pull you over at a "sobriety checkpoint" on your way back after your fine meal, and say that they smell alcohol on your breath, your eyes are bloodshot, you get nervous during the physical field test and fail, bingo a DUI charge. There may be an escaped felon on the loose etc. Or as mentioned a rear end crash can pop it open and whoopsie daisy. Lots of things outside your control can cause the police to see into your trunk.

7 years in the big house at Rikers Island being Bubbas Bitch is not worth it at least IMO.

Or to add to that list, if you happen to get pulled by a dog unit, and that dog indicates (because it can smell the powder residue from cartridge guns you might own, even though you don't have them with you because you're only attending an airgun match), or if your car is second hand and the previous owner used to carry drugs or powder/cartridge guns in the boot.

Do you know everything about the previous owner?

One of the entertaining little quirks of most country's law is that walking a sniffer dog past your car does not constitute a search, but if it indicates then that's sufficient reason to conduct a search.

My favorite part used to be Line 8, especially the beginning.
http://amhistory.si.edu/starspangledban ... yrics.aspx

And on a separate note, given the historical context, the comments in this thread by johnny_r are especially ironic.

This is all very simple....

If you live in state where they are so STUPID to restrict an air pistol....... MOVE!

If you don't live in one of those states...... DON'T VISIT

Problem solved.

kaban56 wrote: So, what will happen if I land in Newark airport with a case that contains an Olympic grade air rifle? (provided that I was able to board the plane, checked the case, no air, etc....legal at the place of departure)
And at the same time, what will happen if I try to board a flight out of Newark airport with one of these? I am not a resident on NJ and don't have any gun permit of any kind

To, or through? If you are transiting through, you are legally protected by Federal law...though NJ and (especially) NYC are notorious for being rather contemptuous of that. If you don't leave the airport, and in particular if you are only making a connecting flight, you're legally covered...and should be OK from a practical standpoint. I've flown through Newark (even used it as a point of departure) with firearms and had no problems.

To is another matter. The same Federal law states that the firearm must be legal at both ends of the trip.

There was an NRA ILA brief that covered this last year that is particularly pertinent to NYC and New Jersey:
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact- ... ation.aspx

Pay special attention to the description of Mr. Revell's case. He was a Utah resident transiting through EWR (Newark Airport) to Pennsylvania. Due to a flight cancellation, he had to collect his luggage and spend the night in a hotel. When he attempted to check in at the counter the following day, declaring his firearm, he was arrested. And you shouldn't think this is as improbable or unrealistic of a scenario as being rear-ended in a vehicle collision so that a police officer can look in your trunk: Newark Airport, JFK Airport, and LGA Airport so far this year (Jan-Jul) are ranked as the 3rd, 7th, and 9th worst airports in the US for departures.

Anyway, it looks like H.R. 4269 described in the NRA bulletin went nowhere (even though it was bipartisan) and died in committee last year. It looks like it has been reintroduced (still bipartisan) this year, this time as H.R. 1290, but its latest status is "in committee" (as of March). Odds are that it will probably never get past that stage. Here's the full story: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr1290

rmarsh wrote:This is all very simple....

If you live in state where they are so STUPID to restrict an air pistol....... MOVE!

If you don't live in one of those states...... DON'T VISIT

Problem solved.

rmarsh - I agree with you that it's stupid to restrict air pistols (well, at least for adults, and at least for as long as there's no pistol version of the Benjamin Rogue ( http://www.crosman.com/croswords/?p=1297 ).

But, I'll have to respectfully disagree with the rest of your advice. The thing is, there are equally stupid laws everywhere you go - you really can't get away from them. For example, Arkansas has a stupid law that doesn't allow for "lane splitting" on my motorcycle. Should I not go there? No! It would be terrible to miss out on Hot Springs / Eureka Springs / The Ozarks / and-all-the-other-wonderful-Natural_State-wonders!

Go travel! Everywhere! And make sure you tell all your politicians politely and persistently what you want them to do for you!!!

"if you don't have a passport, get one!"
- Henry Rollins

jr wrote:

rmarsh wrote:This is all very simple....

If you live in state where they are so STUPID to restrict an air pistol....... MOVE!

If you don't live in one of those states...... DON'T VISIT

Problem solved.

rmarsh - I agree with you that it's stupid to restrict air pistols (well, at least for adults, and at least for as long as there's no pistol version of the Benjamin Rogue ( http://www.crosman.com/croswords/?p=1297 ).

But, I'll have to respectfully disagree with the rest of your advice. The thing is, there are equally stupid laws everywhere you go - you really can't get away from them. For example, Arkansas has a stupid law that doesn't allow for "lane splitting" on my motorcycle. Should I not go there? No! It would be terrible to miss out on Hot Springs / Eureka Springs / The Ozarks / and-all-the-other-wonderful-Natural_State-wonders!

Go travel! Everywhere! And make sure you tell all your politicians politely and persistently what you want them to do for you!!!

"if you don't have a passport, get one!"
- Henry Rollins

jr,

I hesitate to comment further because I don't want to get too far off the OPs original discussion, but........

Yes, there are stupid laws everywhere, and a person cannot avoid everywhere that has a stupid law.

HOWEVER, MY right to keep and bear arms is a constitutionally guaranteed right. MY right to protect myself and family from those who would do me harm is a GOD given natural right. Having the means to carry out that God given right is simply common sense. Not being able to lane split on a motorcycle in Arkansas may be a useless law, but it certainly does not rise to the level of a constitutional or natural law freedom.

So for me, I go to extreme lengths to avoid places that place excessive restrictions on my rights and freedoms. Does that mean I have to avoid some places I would like to see, yes it does.

Just today I heard that in Boston a kid was expelled from school for playing with an airsoft pistol in his OWN front yard. Boston..... you people are STUPID. If you live there and don't think you are...... then hurry and get out because stupid is contagious. It has infected the entire eastern and western coasts and unfortunately is spreading inland at a rapid clip.

Sorry for the rant! I think I'm ok now. :-)

I guess I should be thankful for living in California then, despite its gun grabbing politicians. Also, thank God for us having the Calguns Foundation. They don't screw around and they will not hesitate to sue the state.

rmarsh wrote: jr,

HOWEVER, MY right to keep and bear arms is a constitutionally guaranteed right. ... Not being able to lane split on a motorcycle in Arkansas may be a useless law, but it certainly does not rise to the level of a constitutional or natural law freedom.

Just today I heard that in Boston a kid was expelled from school for playing with an airsoft pistol in his OWN front yard. Boston..... you people are STUPID.

Good point. I agree with you; my example was a weak one (constitutional right is not at all comparable to vehicle code).

However, about the kid-expelled-from-school, if it's the case that's making the rounds in the sensationalistic Internet news today, you should know that there is always the other side to the story (the principal's and the superintendent's statements on the school's FB page):
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater
and
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... permPage=1

I know if my own kid were one of those that were getting shot at with airsoft while waiting for the bus I would certainly want something done about it.