TargetTalk

This is a very interesting topic but for most shooter makes little difference.

Using the largest spread from the test we get 0.552 cm



if we work out the math the difference in position of the front sight (assuming the rear sight stays fixed) is 0.164496 mm

Most shooters, myself included, cannot maintain a hold that precise to make a difference from the pellet used.

Doc,
We come back to my initial statement to which level we are trying to help?
What level of performance 480, 520, 540, 565, 572, and 580 we are talking about? This is driving me crazy. :(
Moreover, if we not talking about scores and doing this for pleasure to make holes in the paper….I’m on the wrong spot.

I will rephrase it. It depends of your current performance and your goal.
If your knowledge and performance level below 565, pellet testing will not affect your performance.
If you know how and you are able to score over 570 you must do this.
If your goal is to perform over 580 you can’t avoid it.
All depends ;)

Dear Rover, name of your topic is “pellet testing”, but inclination of your report is “pellet sizing”. This is two different subjects, can you be more specific next time. ;)
Since I’m not fluent in English, may I assume BS stance for as Business strategy? :)

Sorry, Doc226, that's .552 INCHES (and for a sized pellet).

BS stands for "Kuhe scheiss", bovine excrement, political discourse, tonterias, and plain ol' bull shit!

I guess we are wearing this subject out, but at least the discussion is civil.

If I am not mistaken, the pellet diameter is based on the forward edge of the pellet. However, when sizing, only the skirt is being altered...at least this is the way my Nygord sizer works. So, the specified diameter is not being changed.

Scott, you are assuming that the pistol is being aimed at the center each time. If this is the case, even the worst pellet will score a 10. However, you have to admit that during aiming, if the shot breaks at the edge of the 10 ring, the more inaccurate your pellet is, the greater the chance that it will wander outside the 10 ring. When scores are being fired in the 580's, points are precious. An interesting test would be to shoot a shot, then put a target over that hole with the hole at the very edge of the 10 ring. Then shoot 5 or 10 more shots and see how many of the fail to clip the 10 ring. Splitting hairs, yes, but I want every single point I deserve.

BEA wrote:However, you have to admit that during aiming, if the shot breaks at the edge of the 10 ring, the more inaccurate your pellet is, the greater the chance that it will wander outside the 10 ring.

We must also remember that if the shot breaks just outside of the 10 ring, the more inaccurate your pellet is, the greater the chance that it will wander into the 10 ring.

Rover wrote:Sorry, Doc226, that's .552 INCHES (and for a sized pellet).

OK that increases the error slightly on the hold, now it is 0.4 mm

What you say is correct David. However, now you are relying on luck which is out of the shooters control. That is like relying on everyone else to shoot poorly. I want what I deserve, no more, no less.

"if the shot breaks at the edge of the 10 ring, the more inaccurate your pellet is, the greater the chance that it will wander outside the 10 ring."

Sorry, David...BEA is right on this one. There is a greater area outside the 10 ring than in. YES, you may get lucky, but odds are against you.

PS: I LOVE the way this thread is going!

BEA wrote:What you say is correct David. However, now you are relying on luck which is out of the shooters control. That is like relying on everyone else to shoot poorly. I want what I deserve, no more, no less.

I agree with you, I just didn't want people to forget that inaccuracy caused by the pellet/gun/shooter combination doesn't always result in a worse score.

What would Jong Oh JIN shoot with the "wrong" pellets? I bet he would still do pretty well.

BS aside, I think that was the point of the whole thread.

Rover wrote:BS aside, I think that was the point of the whole thread.

No point, just philosophical BS

To KBOOKMYER,

I just happened to stumble across this a few minutes ago. If you are interested, this guy sells everything connected with the Beeman pellet sizer.

lewisbelinda@yahoo.com

Now you can test your theory (from page one of this thread) about different sizing of the same pellet.

I would be very interested in the results.

Interestingly enough, while GWhite comes the closest, nobody seems to appreciate that the *process* of how the shooter shoots has a biog impact on whether or not pellet size/quality matters.

If you are not breaking the trigger properly, yes, a tighter "bench rest group" might actually give you a slight edge over a looser pellet. [improper break = wait until perfect alignment then break shot. This Is Wrong.] If you are already moving away from the 10.9 when you release the pellet, yes, less "spread" will reduce the effect of your error.

If you are breaking the trigger properly ["leading" the 10.9], then having a tighter grouping pellet will actually hurt your performance slighlty more than help it [and yes you *do* need to run the CEP calculations to do so . . . visually though it helps if you think of your "aim" resulting in a circle of CEP diameter hovering over the circle of 10 ring ring diameter. If the CEP circle is outside of the 10 ring moving toward it, a smaller CEP circle will result in a worse shot by e difference in area between the CEP circle inside the 10 ring / area of CEP circle outside the 10 ring . . . Do you see it yet?]

Of course, this effect doesn't hold for "very large" CEP circles relative to the 10 ring circle. And it doesn't hold for situations where the lag or lead times for good or bad trigger process are very extreme either (ie the ratio between how much "too early" vs "too late" you break the shot).

So

For world class shooter shooting world class pellets in a world class arm with world class trigger control . . .

. . . wait for it . . .

A "slightly looser" pellet will actually give you slightly better performance than a "slightly tighter" pellet [ceteris paribus].

For a club level shooter shooting club level pellets in a club level pistol with club level skills the opposite is true.

Hmm.

So actually the better the shooter you are the less the quality of the equipment matters, and in some cases worse is better!

The worse of a shooter you are the more the quality of the equipment matters, and in all cases nothing less than world-class will do!

So if you're a 570+ shooter don't worryt about your pellets; indeed, shoot the Daisy Hunting pellets in matches. Loaded backwards. With damaged skirts.

If you're a struggling 540 shooter, dude, you need to hand polish every pellet and examine them under an electron scanning microscope. Sort them by weight, skirt diameter, IQ, and personality type. Only shoot the pellets with the best Kung Fu/Feng Shui vibes.

C Ya

Steve

I must partially agree with you on this one.

Only proper application of Feng Shui has a chance of enhancing performance. Of course, this is highly akin to "holding your mouth right."

Ah, but that works only after you have thoroughly MolyCryoElectroWhizzified your shooting socks; and only on days of the week that don't end in "-day!"

Having carried out many pellet testing sessions with both an LP1 and more recently with the LP10E when gripped in a vice.
When trying different makes and sizes of pellets and using different muzzle velocities, the resultant group size and relative position on the target, is well within the 10 ring.
Having carried out this exercise to try to find the best pellet for the pistol, what I did achieve was complete confidence in the pellet with the most consistent muzzle velocity and overall size of the group on the target. At that particualr point in time the H & N Finale Match 4.49 Air Rifle pellets were perceived to be the best, in my opinion, for my pistol.
Total confidence in the pellet rules out another possibility for the cause of a poor shot.
Back to being the fault of the nut behind the butt.
See my website for some of the results.
www.tenrings.co.uk