4H Nationals

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:25 pm

Well I'll be....

I'm a rifle coach and I see no problem with the rules as published ... I'd have made a few (very minor) clarifications, but the rifle rules seem solid to me.

What I am absolutely STUNNED about (and those that know me, know I'm FULLY in favor of) is that the 4-H National committee has decided to go back to a percentage basis in determining individual and team winners and then use that as a basis for a placement points for the Davison (overall) award.

BRAVO!!
Shooters that practice and put the extra effort in will now be rewarded for their efforts

Chequamegon · Post by **Chequamegon** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:21 am

The percentage thing does look better!!!

I wonder when they will post the detailed rules?

A coach sent me a partial saying (from past nationals) that bolt actions may not be used for the silhouetts. I don't understand that reasoning at all! They will shoot out to 100 meters and would benifit from a safe bolt action. Most of these pistols for this type of shooting have bolts.

This leaves me with many more questions.....How big and heavy are the targets. How long can the barrel be? I hate using high velocity ammo at that kind of distance because of its poor grouping characteristics, so a longer barrel may help get the velocities up a bit with the tighter grouping low velocity stuff.

It would be nice if they would leave past national rules up so that you could get some kind of idea what your kids are up against, even if they change them all the time.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:18 am

Chequamegon wrote:I wonder when they will post the detailed rules?

A coach sent me a partial saying (from past nationals) that bolt actions may not be used for the silhouetts. I don't understand that reasoning at all! They will shoot out to 100 meters and would benifit from a safe bolt action. Most of these pistols for this type of shooting have bolts.

Full rules are already posted.
http://www.4-hshootingsports.org/
There are:
1) General Rules
2) Event Synopsis (Kinda a Match Director Bulletin on any restrictions/interpretations)
3) NGB Rules (you have to get these from the NGB)

The coach was either pulling your leg (possible in 4-H, we like to kid around), or didn't know what he was talking about (sigh ... also possible in 4-H)

Bolts are the most common action in smallbore rifle silhouette. Come to think about it, the bolt action pistols are not allowed in the smallbore pistol silhouette. So just confusion there (uummmm ...... lots of this in 4-H) .... upon re-reading your post I see you were indeed referring to smallbore pistol. See...???? my bad

Why BA pistols not allowed? Dunno ... probably someone decided it was an "unfair advantage " a long time ago, and it stuck. (States have been known to make up their own rules ....)
They've tried to (numerous times) do away with the "3.2 any rifle" as some think that kids who shoot precision rifle should be penalized for all the work they put into their chosen sport ... thankfully this has been beaten down time & time again, although you'll still encounter range officers that have a strong bias against the precision kids (i.e. verbally telling them it's unfair that they are shooting in the match) (ahhh... new 4-H PC motto ... "Make the Best like the rest").

If you think it's wrong, start lobbying to the National committee to change it. They do listen (from my experience). Certainly cannot get it done for this year as it is a long process. Heck, it's taken, what, 3-4 years to get them to go back to percentage.

Again ... Gerry Snapp, Conrad Arnold & Susan Holder will listen to you. You can find their contact into in the State coordinators page on the website above.

Chequamegon · Post by **Chequamegon** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:02 pm

Sorry I should have been clear from the start about "pistol"

I don't understand why 4H has a National shoot? They push, push and try to get all of the kids jazzed up about going, then the say you can not use any of the equipment that all the governing bodies in these sports use.

I do understand 4H wants to and does get many kids involved in shooting, but why do things different. So that no child has an advantage......I get that to a point.....then don't have a National Championship. If you do hold national shoots make the rules the same as eveyone else.

I have to try and find a pistol w/o a bolt, that has a 12" barrel and weighs 5lbs or less.

My expertise is not in this side of shooting sports, its in the archery side of things, so maybe I have no clue what I am talking about. That said I have fairly thick skin, so just tell me if I am confused and blowing smoke for no reason.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:27 pm

Mike ...

I 'm sure the pistol can have a bolt ... just not use a bolt action.
A semi-auto ruger, or a revolver, etc. would fit the bill.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:47 pm

Chequamegon wrote:So that no child has an advantage......I get that to a point.....then don't have a National Championship. If you do hold national shoots make the rules the same as eveyone else.

From my experience, the "advantage" comes from practice, practice, & more practice.

Our kids have taken the state smallbore rifle match for the past 5 years ... we shoot two events usually, position & silhouette. Our kids shoot rifles from a $2300 1912 Anschutz, $480 CM-2's, $350 Marlin's, to $125 Remington 513's. For the past 4 years if the kids had not even fired the silhouette match they would have taken state. The difference, our kids practice & shoot 9's & 10's, those that pull the rifle out to "sight it in" the week before the match can sometimes not even hit the paper.

Is there a difference in the rifles ... sure .... some are used to shoot tin cans, others are used to hit the head of a pin at 50 yds. I cannot feel too bad when a kid shows up to a nail pulling contest with a screwdriver. I think that's more the coach's fault.

We focus primarily on position shooting, and we do very well. Others focus on silhouette and/or CMP rimfire sporter and kick our rears in those events. Good for them ... that's what they practice and they deserve to beat us.

One of the reasons I like the Nationals format (3 events in each discipline) is that it allows for the kids to focus on the type of shooting they do in their area.

Chequamegon · Post by **Chequamegon** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:33 pm

Thank you for the input guys!!!

Doing a bit of research and looking at the rules, the two guns that would be with in the guide lines are the Thompson Contender and the Browning Buck Mark Sihlouette.

Chequamegon · Post by **Chequamegon** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:31 pm

I just thought about the the Ruger Charger.......anybody have any experiance with them?