TargetTalk

David Levene wrote:

Bill32 wrote:I can't think of a single fatality related to target shooting at the ISSF level.

Please remember that this has got absolutely nothing to do with the ISSF.

Yes, I understand the pentathlon is governed by another body.

However the clown in charge of pentathlon has made the frigging ridiculous statement that the laser pistol is safer and there are no more dangerous situations like occur with a .22. And that shooting can now occur in front of the spectators seats. As opposed to a World Cup where shooting occurs behind the spectators?

Not that such things don't happen, I was shooting Rapid Fire once (two shooting on each range), finished the series, unloaded, put the gun down, looked over and the other guy was shown a yellow card by a Jury member for unsafe handling (presumably went beyond 45 degrees from the firing line after the fifth shot. Prob best I couldn't see, the jury members eyes were wide.

This is an abomination; Its the thin edge.

IDENTIFY, ISOLATE, BOYCOTT, DESTROY !

The talk of how the lasers will be so much more environmentally-friendly than air pistols is amusing. I guess all of the CO2 greenhouse gases from the air pistols are a major contributor to global warming? Or is it the huge amount of lead poisoning caused by the pellets? Sigh. What nonsense.

Why don't they just do the shooting part of the event with a mouse and Call of Duty 3 and be done with it?

If the barrel time (laser is speed of light), recoil control, and wind doping are taken away, is it still shooting?

If you take away the projectile, you dont have a gun;
You have a half arsed idea best suited as an excuse to take away more guns.

peterz wrote:Shooting is shooting. This sounds like something only the United Kingdom's anti-gun bureaucrats could have dreamed up.

All the more amazing that the man is a German, from the land that brought us Anschutz, Walther, Feinwerkbau, and which heavily supports ISSF shooting and of course Biathlon.

Pentathlon of course isn't ISSF, but it shares much with Biathlon. Indeed, the pistol is integrated with the running into what is quite a Biathlon-style Run-Shoot-Run-Shoot event.

Based on their point allocations from the other 3 events, I believe they have a staggered start (i.e. leaders leave first), which means instead of totting up the points at the end to find a winner, it's whoever crosses the finish line first, because their points advantage is converted into a time advantage for the final section. It's much more media and spectator friendly that way.

That's the idea. Nevertheless, I think they've taken a leap off the deep end. And I suspect somebody has a financial stake - this is like requiring the Sius-Ascor system for EVERY match. Nobody could afford it.

Hemmers wrote:All the more amazing that the man is a German, from the land that brought us Anschutz, Walther, Feinwerkbau, and which heavily supports ISSF shooting and of course Biathlon.

I was at the press conference in may 2010 in Wiesbaden, when Dr. Schormann announced the change in the rules and demonstrated the new system. He mentioned, that the ISSF as also the german shooting federation DSB disagree with this approach, and he got a lot of verrry loud response from the gunwriters - but most of the journalists were from newspapers, and after the horrible Winnenden assault last year with 16 shot people the german gun law was changed again.

Technically: you choose between a laser modul to put into the system housing instead of the barrel on existing AP. It still blows out air from the tank, which cause a slightly recoil. This module for Steyr, Morini and Walther pistols will cost around 599 Euro (one of these pistols might be shon in the video, the stickers are from it's former "airpistol carreer". In the near future there will be non-shooting "Multi-Media-Pointers" (MMP), looking like an futuristic airpistol, but no gun anymore (and not rebuildable). Costs: approc 1600 Euro. The simple hit-or-miss-target will be at 200 Euro, the higher level target with 1/1000 mm resolution was mentioned to cost something around 1000 Euro each.

Therefore president Schormanns plans are not directly forced by or caused by the german gun law. He has the vision to bring Pentathlon to continents and countries, where guns of any kind, eben airpistols, are forbidden or at least under restrictions: Asia (especially indonesia, malaysia, japan), Africa ect. Those MMP's won't cause any problems regarding minor age, border control and of course (because they are no guns at all) no ammo and no accident danger. A kind of sophisticated Surefire-lamp (sad, that this brand name is not free, would fit better...)

They will have a demo in Singapur during the Youth Olympics, right in downtown Singapur, and the olympics 2012 will see Pentathlon in a park near the center of London. His next plan is to convice the biathlon union to join his plan (he has still good contacts there, both federations belonged together in the past)

But at first, that's the latest news, the time schedule is delayed because of severe technical poblems duruing the test world cup in Berlin last month. It is not easy to send a laser beam strong enough for the target to react and at the same time short enough, that even slight movements don't cause a line instead of a hitting point and a clear score. As you can imagine, the laser with the speed of light and the angle between the shooters hand and the target really make it (today!!) impossible to produce a clear hit at the high-level, scorung target (1/1000 mm precise). To hit the simple target used in most competitions, like a falling plate with only a large hit zone, that is easy - but to simulate shooting with precise "shots", that seems to be much more difficult than the inventors thought.

For more info on construction see http://www.iq-shooting.com/index_eng.htm

By the time they get the power up to the point where the target system works, it will become 'dangerous'. Kilowatt, Megawatt? output sufficient in picosecond time?
Glad I'm too old and decrepit to play laser-tag.

Dr Jim

This idea must be opposed at all levels. I have spend the good part of 20 years dealing with legislators, politicians at national and international level;
Some lessons learnt:
1) Legislators will follow the path of least possible "damage potential" and accountability. They are not there at the service of voters, but to feed their own ambition. Hence if you offer any technical advantage, whereby, they can never have to answer or face any form of accountability, they will chose this path....no contest.

2) Pandering to the unfortunate state of firearm laws of some countries like Japan. is not really inviting disaster, but making sure you have lost before you start, because this WILL become the path of least resistance.
It will the classic case of the lowest form of "collective morality" you can imagine... (risking making the rich poor, so the destitute wont be left out).

I can well believe that there is a prevailing, virulent form of insiduous socialism ideal in the West; But to listen to such flippant proposals from within the shooting community itself, is very very disturbing, for those with eyes open.

You know, (and I say this with a cynical smile) I was always highly doubtfull of the popular notion that the West won over communism and the collective ideal.

I know, I know, I have waded too far out into an ocean seemingly apart from shooting interests; But I ask everybody to consider the fact that all human endevour is connected through culture and the ideal.

The world has to be watched very carefully.

UIPM name change to UIGA (International Arcade Games Union)?

As I've sais before, follow the money. In particular, trace the kickbacks.

A friend of mine, who is a UIPM Judge, posted this link on the "Stirton Forum" here in the UK.

Whilst I knew that they were using Steyr LP10s, I hadn't realised that they were still discharging air.

Steyr is involved in this IQ-Sport conversion?

Seamaster wrote:Steyr is involved in this IQ-Sport conversion?

Yes, and as you will see from the linked page, so are Anschutz (not surprising with the link between them).

Hmm...might be time to boycott Steyr and Anschutz for contributing to this fiasco. How about Pardini? Are they joining in with this?

I fear these companies have just read the writing on the wall, the shooting sports as we know them have a limited future in the Olympics.

If you want to start boycotting things the best place to start would be the London Games and anything to do with the UK Big Brother state (I guess that means no Jaguars or Haggis for anyone) that provides these forces with victories.

It would be nice if Steyr and Anschutz actually stood up and said no but in reality I doubt it would actually slow the descent into the video game market.

Richard H wrote:.....and anything to do with the UK Big Brother state (I guess that means no Jaguars or Haggis for anyone) that provides these forces with victories.

What are you waffling on about Richard?

There are or will be adapters for all of the major air pistols on the market!

http://www.iq-sport.tv/de/News/02052010

Steyr (available now)
FWB
Pardini
Morini
Walther

Let us not take the attitude of "if you cannot beat them, join them." Better, stop them by ridicule (the iq-sports website is all about video games!), and refusal to play. I think I would rather shoot a real pistol alone in my basement than in a "match" which imitated an air pistol (rifle) with a glorified Xbox.

Although these new gadgets may help advocate shooting in countries where air guns are forbiden, their cost is already prohibitive to promote the sport itself. Target and laser pointer most likely to cost twice as much as a good air pistol.

What they said about Malaysia and Singapore which one can't own an air pistol is not true.

The bright side of this new approach is that it opens the opportunity to those who have the technological capability to cheat. No need to take beta-blocker.

I wonder why they didn't adopt Noptel or Scatt method but use a laser pointer instead. I think it is a scheme to generate business and revenue.