TargetTalk

ERNIE RODRIGUEZ, WHERE DO YOU GET SUCH BARREL WORK DONE? CAN YOU GIVE US AN IDEA OF THE COST INVOLVED? MANY THANKS, DWAINE.

The bbl I am talking about is the Dave Wilson bbl. He uses a Shilen blank and a 10" twist-and his criteria was-it had to be very successful with a commonly available HBWC like SPEER, at lower target velocities.To this end,he hit the mark.I have thoroughly tested this bbl using varying amounts of B'eye,WST,N310 and N320.I have used Speer,Lapau and Meister bullets with these tests.My criteria was accuracy,mimimum leading,type of crimp(feeding reliability)and recovery characteristics.Most combinations produced 2.5" or better-with the smallest being less than 1" (c-c) This is at 50 yds,6x scope,sandbag/bench testing AND 10 shot groups. The price of the bbl is around $300. If you are looking for 50yd "X" ring accuracy-a Dave Wilson bbl is one of the ways to go. Hope this helps you.Ernie His Email is fc60net@attglobal.net

Don Nygords favorite load was 1.5 gr. WST behind the 98 Speer HBWC with WSP. It performed excellently in both my Pardini HP and Walther OSP.

One thing to keep in mind is that there is no one-size-fits-all load. What works in my Hammerli probably won't work in your Walther and that won't work in your Pardini. By "work" I mean function and recoil, maybe group size.

Most all of the recommended hand loads I've seen will punch the X-ring at 25 meters, but to get 50 yard/meter accuracy and consistency of group size you need to take the other approach, imo. Ernie's (and others') have the better idea. Get the barrel and work up your own load with it.

Thanks Ernie, I will be looking into it. Dwaine

Thanks guys for all the input! I'll do some reverse engineering and check my Laupa factory ammunition for bullet and brass diameter, powder weight and compare it to my own reloads. I just need to borrow a bullet puller/hammer... I'll keep you all updated.

Cheers,
Axel

Axel wrote:Hello!

Why is it so that my own reloads does not produce the perfect round holes that factory ammunition does? Not round holes is a sign of bullet instabillity in the air - I do not like that! :-(

Here is some technical info about my reloads:

- 1.5 grains Vihtavouri N310. This load speeds up the bullet to around 240 meters/sec (exactly the same speed as with Lapua/Norma factory loads)

- 98 grain Lapua bullet (exactly the same as Lapua/Norma factory loads)

- CCI smal pistol primer (tried Federal 100 before, no difference)

Factory ammunition is Norma 98 grains (which is the same as Lapua)

Please look at the following pictures. Targets has been shot from 25 meters, about 27 yards with a Pardini HP pistol.

Factory ammunition:


Own reloads:


Please give me some input about this!

Cheers,
Axel

Here is an update:

I pulled out the bullet with a bullet hammer on a few Norma/Lapua factory rounds and compared them to my own reloads. I found out something interesting...

First of all, powder load in Norma/Lapua factory ammunition is 1.5 grains, powder looks just like N310. Which is exactly what I expected after my chonograph tests.

The interesting part is bullet diameter. Lapua/Norma factory ammunition has smaller bullet diameters compared to my own reloads. Smaller diameter and visually clearly much flatter/rounder than bullets from my own reloads

Norma/Lapua: 7.915mm (.3116")
Own reload: 7.935mm (.3124")
Brand new Lapua bullet: 7.970mm (.3138")

Bullet to the left is from Norma/Lapua factory load, right is from own reload


Next I'll get help to modify the the Dillon tool to make a tighter brass-case, and therefore get smaller diameter bullets in my own reloads. I'm getting closer to that perfect load, I can feel it! :-)

Cheers,
Axel

Interesting. So the Lapua projectile you purchased is on the right side (with the dented bottom)? Or is that some other brand of projectile? How does the Lapua factory projectile compare to the one you pulled from the Lapua factory round?

Also, do you tumble your cases after shooting them?

Pradeep5 wrote:Interesting. So the Lapua projectile you purchased is on the right side (with the dented bottom)?

Correct! The dented bottom is probably due to some bouncing in the bullet hammer.

Pradeep5 wrote: How does the Lapua factory projectile compare to the one you pulled from the Lapua factory round?

You mean a virgin Lapua factory bullet? It looks just like the bullet on the right side, without the dents of course. Look above for bullet diameters.

Pradeep5 wrote: Also, do you tumble your cases after shooting them?

Nope. I use ultrasonic cleaning instead. But I also use brand new or uncleaned brass. This is not an important factor I think.

Cheers,
Axel

Are you using same brand of brass? Are the wall thicknesses the same? Do the loaded rounds have the same outside dimensions? It looks like the factory bullet shows more marks from the brass, I was just wondering if the factory loading is more "compressed"? Is the factory crimp tighter? It is very interesting how close the two loads may be, but with very different results. I guess small details make a big difference. Good luck on your quest.

I've been reloading Remington brass with Winchester small pistol primer, 1.7 gr Bullseye and 90gr HBWC bullets. I use a soft taper crimp. Every hole is round as one would want. The barrel shows no sign of leading. Some of my fellow shooters say they have had problems with Speer bullets cracking when crimped. I have not used Speer and just pass on as antidotal information.

I've been reloading Remington brass with Winchester small pistol primer, 1.7 gr Bullseye and 90gr HBWC bullets. I use a soft taper crimp. Every hole is round as one would want. The barrel shows no sign of leading. Some of my fellow shooters say they have had problems with Speer bullets cracking when crimped. I have not used Speer and just pass on as antidotal information.

Axel wrote:

Axel wrote:Hello!

Why is it so that my own reloads does not produce the perfect round holes that factory ammunition does? Not round holes is a sign of bullet instabillity in the air - I do not like that! :-(

Here is some technical info about my reloads:

- 1.5 grains Vihtavouri N310. This load speeds up the bullet to around 240 meters/sec (exactly the same speed as with Lapua/Norma factory loads)

- 98 grain Lapua bullet (exactly the same as Lapua/Norma factory loads)

- CCI smal pistol primer (tried Federal 100 before, no difference)

Factory ammunition is Norma 98 grains (which is the same as Lapua)

Please look at the following pictures. Targets has been shot from 25 meters, about 27 yards with a Pardini HP pistol.

Factory ammunition:


Own reloads:


Please give me some input about this!

Cheers,
Axel

Here is an update:

I pulled out the bullet with a bullet hammer on a few Norma/Lapua factory rounds and compared them to my own reloads. I found out something interesting...

First of all, powder load in Norma/Lapua factory ammunition is 1.5 grains, powder looks just like N310. Which is exactly what I expected after my chonograph tests.

The interesting part is bullet diameter. Lapua/Norma factory ammunition has smaller bullet diameters compared to my own reloads. Smaller diameter and visually clearly much flatter/rounder than bullets from my own reloads

Norma/Lapua: 7.915mm (.3116")
Own reload: 7.935mm (.3124")
Brand new Lapua bullet: 7.970mm (.3138")

Bullet to the left is from Norma/Lapua factory load, right is from own reload


Next I'll get help to modify the the Dillon tool to make a tighter brass-case, and therefore get smaller diameter bullets in my own reloads. I'm getting closer to that perfect load, I can feel it! :-)

Cheers,
Axel

Very interesting!

Do you Alex, or somebody else has some new experience about reverse engineering the Lapua loads?

//Guest32WC

Machine rest test both loads as you may not have a problem, I had a simular results with a 38 wad cutter gun in NRA bulls eye. My 50 yard targets showed oblong markings on about 40% of my shots but tha machine rest test with 10 round groups was under 1 1/2 inches. Apparently this shaped bullet occolates about its center without effecting its terminal accuracy. I thought I was flipping the shots and causing the odd marks on the target or that I had bad ammo until the machine reat set me at ease. Ernie is quite likely to be correct about the rifling rate of twist and if he is , youre goint to have to find a replacement barrel to fix the problem. Best of luck, Good Shooting Bill Horton

Why on earth would Pardini put in a barrel with a to low twist rate, and keep on doing it for years? The twist rate is perfectly fine together with Lapua factory ammuniton and 25 meters. For bullseye, I have no clue and dont really care eather. I only shoot ISSF CFP at 25 meters.

I really wish I had access to ransom rest adapters for Pardini (ANDERS!!!). I think, just like you Bill, that the home reloaded have precision just as good as Lapua factory ammunition.

I will try to calibrate the Lapua bullets down to .311-312 (just like the pulled bullet from the Lapua ammunition) to see if there is any difference.

Cheers,
Axel

I'm assuming the barrel Dave is using has a diameter that works for .314 bullets. Can someone check their barrel and see what it measures? I always had trouble with leading. Do his barrels stay clean with Speer and Hornady bullets?

I also wondered why Pardini uses such a slow twist when everyone I talked with seemed to think the slow twist was the most likely cause of the tipping. The keyholing is probably a result of built up lead.

Are all of the Euro manufacturers using a slow twist?

Stan

As I understand it, the Europeans got the slow twist from revolver barrels...but the revolvers shot round-nosed bullets not as susceptible to tipping. They stayed with it because it worked OK at 25m. Americans need 50 yd accuracy.

Also I had this problem, but in contrast, with the Lapua of it manufactures beating of side in the target. I made examinations with Walther, Hammerli and Pardini, beyond S&W 32. I solved reducing the grain load (o,1 or 0,2) and diminishing crimp (little). Excellent result. It makes the test and later in it informs them.

Some preliminary chronograph data to add to the fire. All shot with Pardini HP and Wilson 1/10" barrel. Factory loads on top.

Berry's plated bullets show promise at 50 yards, but seem to like being driven at or over Lapua factory speeds.

The current batch of Hornady 90gr at about 700 fps is holding a solid 10 ring group (but not quite X ring) at 50 yards off a bench. No machine rest inserts, sorry.

Mixed brass or sorted by brand doesn't seem to make a difference. Medium taper crimp.

Enjoy,
Keith

Hi,
I came across an old sample of a German magazin VISIR April 4 1988
Page 22 - 25

Lapua
1,22 grain N-310 (N-310 may not be the same today!)
98 (97,63)grain bullet, (looks the same as today)
Shell lengt 23,25
Total length 24,45 (this may or may not be with the "button")
235,3 m/s
30 shot = 30,7 mm

Norma
1,35 grain R-1 (hard to find outside Sweden today)
98 (98,09)grain bullet
Shell lengt 23,2
Total length 24,2 (this may or may not be with the "button")
223,2 m/s
30 shot = 22,0 mm

Kent