TargetTalk

At the matches the 12th Precinct is holding in Maryland, you would need about a 550-560 to win. I'm struggling to crank out a 540 (shot a 539 last match.....botched the last shot).

That being said, it's all a matter of practice.....and I will cheerfully admit that I use AP as a winter training aid for black powder competition the rest of the year.

Which does not stop me from wanting to win.....

Anonymous wrote: ..560, achieved in competition, puts you in the "upper halv" of the AP community, in my opinion. A fairly acceptable score.

To modify your opinion slightly, to break 540 regularily is not that achievable for the average shooter, I would say 525/530 is more on the money.
560 achieved in competition puts you in more than the upper half in the AP community, maybe in regional/national competition, but not in the overall community.
I would guess that a 530 score would be about midway across the whole community.[/quote]

We live in different parts of the world. Airgunning is more common here in Europe than in the US, it appears.
"Upper half", by that I ment upper half of those competing regularly with APs.

Thanks for all the info guys.
Seems that everyone seems to agree that a score of around 540 would be a fairly good score at club level. This seems to be the figure coming up on our forum here in New Zealand too.

Unfortunately I am currently well short of this mark so I definately need to work on my technique.
I am what I would consider an excellent shot with my weihrauch HW100S PCP but have a long way to go with my air pistol.
I have found that many of the techniques are the same though for accurate shooting of both rifle and pistol especially "follow through" and "breathing"

I was thinking that perhaps if I used a dumb bell weight and practiced raising my pistol arm to shooting position with the weight in my hand it may build up strength in my arm and shoulder to increase steadiness in my aim. Do any of you do similar excercises or am I wasting my energy

Airguntech

Airguntech wrote:Hi all,
I am a newbie to Air pistol shooting and have recently aquired a FWB model 90 Air pistol in excellent condition. I am now hooked on Air pistol shooting and would like to shoot competitively.
I was just wondering what sort of scores a reasonably good club level shooter would be making on the 10M air pistol range.

Any feedback is appreciated

Airguntech

I think a newbie should find himself in the enviable position of starting shooting in a way that sidesteps the acquisition of 'bad shooting habits' , habits that will put a damper increasingly on progress above the 520 mark.

Average Scores should not be a concern now... rather scoring after each shot should be for concentration and good execution of the shot regardless ( at first ) of where the shot lands.

Elmas

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Airguntech wrote: I was thinking that perhaps if I used a dumb bell weight and practiced raising my pistol arm to shooting position with the weight in my hand it may build up strength in my arm and shoulder to increase steadiness in my aim. Do any of you do similar excercises or am I wasting my energy

Airguntech

It will help a bit but keep the weight low - about 2 Kg. Also make sure you do the other arm at the same time. The rubber stress bands are also good. These enable you to 'raise' against tension, again do both arms and don't get too high a resistance.

Rob.

It took me about 2 years to break 500/600 and another year to break 540. I am currently struggling to get back to 540s after losing just about all upper body strength and a couple of months of not shooting at all (shooting 520s right now). It takes time and lots of practice unless you are a "natural."

One thing that works for me is to line-up the sight picture of just the gun sights against a blank area below the target. I then concentrate only on the front sight and line-up that with the bullseye. I find it difficult to line-up all three elements simultaneously and dry-firing while aiming at a blank wall can confirm that the gun sights do stay aligned even when your attention moves to just the front sight.

Best,

Joe

jrmcdaniel wrote: One thing that works for me is to line-up the sight picture of just the gun sights against a blank area below the target. I then concentrate only on the front sight and line-up that with the bullseye. I find it difficult to line-up all three elements simultaneously and dry-firing while aiming at a blank wall can confirm that the gun sights do stay aligned even when your attention moves to just the front sight.

Best,

Joe

Joe,
You cannot get target, foresight, rearsight in focus at the same time and should not even try to. The foresight should in sharp focus, the rearsight less so and the target a blurry black blob. That's in part why a sub-6 aim is preferred.

Rob.

As for weights, what your looking for is muscle endurance, so low weight very high reps. The weight should be slightly heavier that your pistol (2kg is a good weight) and you should be able to grip it is a similar manner to your pistol. I suggest you do an extra set or two on you non shooting side as shooters we tend to develop only one side which can lead to imbalances that can cause injury. Wrist curls and dyna balls are also good excerises these tend to work the muscles of the hand and lower arm and can help prevent tendonitis which is a common shooting injury.

Richard H wrote:As for weights, what your looking for is muscle endurance, so low weight very high reps.

For a really easy, no hassle, solution I used to just wear a 1kg strap on (ankle) weight on each wrist and just carry on with my normal day-to-day life. You don't need to do that for more than a few days before you suddenly realise how light the pistol has become.

David Levene wrote:

Richard H wrote:As for weights, what your looking for is muscle endurance, so low weight very high reps.

For a really easy, no hassle, solution I used to just wear a 1kg strap on (ankle) weight on each wrist and just carry on with my normal day-to-day life. You don't need to do that for more than a few days before you suddenly realise how light the pistol has become.

I tried that but they took the 'P' out of me at work ;-)

Mor seriously, I have tried that at home but not in a proper fashion as David suggests.

Rob.

If I may interject a comment here, which I hope changes the perspective of the original poster.

A 10 in a good score, a 9 is OK.

That's about all you really need to worry about. The totals will take care of themselves.

Cecil Rhodes

CR10XGuest wrote:If I may interject a comment here, which I hope changes the perspective of the original poster.

A 10 in a good score, a 9 is OK.

That's about all you really need to worry about. The totals will take care of themselves.

Cecil Rhodes

i agree with Rhodes. i am currently shooting an average of 540. To reach 540, theoretically, all shots must land within the 9 ring. 10s must be hit to break the 540 barrier.

but more oftenly, it is the 8s n 7s which prevents you from doing so, and also dragging you down along the way. According to my coach, who was once a province team coach in China, 8s and 7s are not to be tolerated if one wants to ever reach 550.

i have only shot for 10 months, but am now trying to tackle my 4 months of stagnation, where i can't seem to bring all my shots into the 9 ring.

perfect alignment/technique is most important, from my experience. only pull the trigger when you have achieved the perfect alignment. Make full use of the 1hr 45 mins. For me, i cut down on the number of sighting shots to 5, so as to save time, energy and potential 10s.

shoot before hand, to cut down warmup time during the competition itself. there is no point in hitting 10s on a sighter card which is not counted. Rather, spend the 105 mins staying focused, concentrating on attaining the perfect alignment and thus, hit 10s.

Lastly, i aim with both eyes. wear no shooting glasses and shooting shoes. and have no problem with my sights. I feel that pistol shooting is not so much of an arms race like rifle shooting, and it is not necessary to have all these equipments to shoot well. (though a good gun really helps)

i agree with Rhodes. i am currently shooting an average of 540. To reach 540, theoretically, all shots must land within the 9 ring. 10s must be hit to break the 540 barrier.
In theory yes. But you will shoot tens and eights if you shoot 540. I know of one case in free pistol where a shooter shot 60 nines. But that's so unique and actually more possible in FP than in AP.

but more oftenly, it is the 8s n 7s which prevents you from doing so, and also dragging you down along the way. According to my coach, who was once a province team coach in China, 8s and 7s are not to be tolerated if one wants to ever reach 550.

I would concentrate more on getting those 9,9's into the 10 than focusing on an 8. I have a perfect example of this: This years Swedish Cup. Below is my target with a grouping that would normaly land somewhere between 580 and 584 points. I only got 568 because I shot 13(!) 9,9's in that match.

Now, what is the most disturbing detail in that picture? All of thos irritating 9,9's and 9,8's? Or the 8,2? Let's say that 8,2 had been a 9,2. 569. Let's say those 9,9's were 10,0's. 581.
Accept the fact that you sometimes release a shitty shot. It happens and it sucks every time. But do NOT accept all those nines, they will eat your points away. Until you shoot +575 those eights will matter less than all nines.

i have only shot for 10 months, but am now trying to tackle my 4 months of stagnation, where i can't seem to bring all my shots into the 9 ring.

perfect alignment/technique is most important, from my experience. only pull the trigger when you have achieved the perfect alignment. Make full use of the 1hr 45 mins. For me, i cut down on the number of sighting shots to 5, so as to save time, energy and potential 10s.

Do you know how "wrong" your alignment can be and still score a ten with a correct triggerpull? It's more than you think. Take a paper target and center a 20mm circle around your area of alignment. That much! Have you used a Scatt computer target? That's when I realized how important the correct trigger pull is. I have a _very_ good trigger pull and I still sometimes push the shot out from the 10 ring if i'm not carefull.
Also, desiding to shoot 5 sighters only is not very good. Sometimes you need perhaps 10-15 shots to relax and get going with the match. (sometimes you need only 4-5). Personally I start the competition when I feel like I'm ready. That may take 4-5 shots. It may also take 15-20 shots. I don't care because I don't want to start scoring if I'm not comfortable. There is plenty of time.

shoot before hand, to cut down warmup time during the competition itself. there is no point in hitting 10s on a sighter card which is not counted. Rather, spend the 105 mins staying focused, concentrating on attaining the perfect alignment and thus, hit 10s.

If you shoot tens on a sighter you can shoot tens on the actual target. I think it's a big mistake to think "oh no I've already used 7 of my tens on the sighter card". You have a million tens! Just shoot.

Lastly, i aim with both eyes. wear no shooting glasses and shooting shoes. and have no problem with my sights. I feel that pistol shooting is not so much of an arms race like rifle shooting, and it is not necessary to have all these equipments to shoot well.

How well is "well"? What if a pair of shoes gave you 3p on a match because of a better stance? And what if you got a couple of more tens with shooting glasses? Hmm.. now that's like 5-7 points "for free" right there.

Keep it up, good luck! =)

I was thinking that perhaps if I used a dumb bell weight and practiced raising my pistol arm to shooting position with the weight in my hand it may build up strength in my arm and shoulder to increase steadiness in my aim. Do any of you do similar excercises or am I wasting my energy


My favorite weight training for the shoulder, detoid muscles, was to use about a 1Kg weight and hold in the shooting position for 20 seconds. Then switch hands and hold with the non-shooting hand in the same position for 20 seconds. Then put it back in the shooting hand, hold for 25 seconds, and then do the same for the non-shooting hand. When you get up to about 40 second hold times, then work your way back down in 5 second increments until you are back to 20 second hold times.

When I was doing this alot and trying to just work on strength I would start at 30 seconds and work up to 90 seconds with 10 second increments between sets. During the match season I would go for shorter duration and practice watching how steady I could remain. I was looking for wobble in my stance and my hold. You can use a heavier weight but I usually did not use one heavier than my pistol.

Weight training properly can build your muscle endurance, the shoulder though is not the only muscle invovled the chest and back have just as much influence on stability. As does your core and your head and neck so just working on shoulder strength endurance might not bring you the gains that you think.

thanks Mellberg, your advice is very much appreciated. i think you misunderstood me on some point.

I shoot before the competition to do away with the time for sighting shots. And yes, i do indeed start shooting score card when i feel that i am ready.

but i prefer to used the time saved to focus on the match shots, to utilise the energy, attention and concentration which would otherwise be spent on sighting shots, which are quite irrelevant. and also because of the time factor(i shoot really slow, e.g. around 1min per shot, with rest in between). 1 pt to add. one has only 60 shots in which to pour out the "millions of tens". every shot counts. i'm sure you get the idea, with those agonizing 9.9s.

Now, what is the most disturbing detail in that picture? All of thos irritating 9,9's and 9,8's? Or the 8,2? Let's say that 8,2 had been a 9,2. 569. Let's say those 9,9's were 10,0's. 581.
Accept the fact that you sometimes release a shitty shot. It happens and it sucks every time. But do NOT accept all those nines, they will eat your points away. Until you shoot +575 those eights will matter less than all nines.

and lastly, pls don't forget that i am someone wh is trying to break 550. while you are someone who is trying to break 580. i am still have a little trouble to get 90% of my shots into the 9. so this advice may not be applicable to me, for now.

thanks anyway, will think about this when i shoot.

I guess my eyesight is not as good as i should be...

Where in the ISSF rules does the explanation of 9.9; 9.8 etc. value for AP shots show? The photo of the target above sure looks like a lot of 10s and one eight to me...granted the tens are "scratch" tens, that is, they cut the 10 ring line.

Or maybe just explain the scoring for me.

Tillman

the hold area for the 10 ring is 11.5+2.25+2.25=16mm

I would say 11.5mm + 4.5mm + 4.5mm = 20,5mm across. If you shoot a 10.0 high and a 10.0 low it will have 11.5mm apart. Add the caliber in both directions.

I think I understand what you mean. You talk about the absolute center of two holes because the center of the hole is basicly where you aimed at.... But I don't. :) I think of the whole area.

tleddy wrote:I guess my eyesight is not as good as i should be...

Where in the ISSF rules does the explanation of 9.9; 9.8 etc. value for AP shots show? The photo of the target above sure looks like a lot of 10s and one eight to me...granted the tens are "scratch" tens, that is, they cut the 10 ring line.

Or maybe just explain the scoring for me.

Tillman

10.0 is where the rim of the bullethole and the 10p ring has no space between them. 10.9 is when the center of the bullethole is dead-center (plus/minus some tens of a millimeter) in the center of the 10p ring. 10.7 and better is pretty much "bulls-eye" for most shooters and a damn good shot.

So if you're unlucky you will have a 9.9 instead of a 10.0. In a final a 9.9 is still not a bad shot but during the qualification it's very anoying. As you can figure out I was not very satisfied with the qualification points of 568 with a grouping like that. The total distance required to make all of those 9.9 into 10.0 is less than the distance for that single 8p to be a 9p. =)

However it's going to be a classic and today I laught at it, and so does my coach. =) He also told me of a FP shooter in Sweden that actually managed to shoot 60 shots well within the 9p ring. But he missed the 10! 540 and not one single 8p. That's gotta suck a little too. =)