TargetTalk

Let's face it folks, there are NO MANUFACTURERS in the US with the desire nor ( skills) to build an American FP. We had a couple of desultory attempts in the 50's & 60's which went NO WHERE fast. The closest to building an RF gun was Hi-Standard--which I believe built a model for one or two (?) Olympics and dropped that concept quickly---though they modeled a few guns capable of shooting .22 short, or conversion to the short, their triggers were not designed with x grams of pull. In fact I have been searching for a Hamden Manufactured Hi-Standard with 5" bull barrel chambered for the short round for indoor bullseye. I've seen a few that were not in NRA 50% condx for which the owners wanted brand new prices.

Bob,

I think we all conceed that this project wouldn't interest a major corporation with stockholders. I would take exception with your opinion that there is no talent in the U.S. to build such a pistol. I am hoping that someone with the right connections and salesmanship might interest the American Pistolsmith Guild in such a project. I think the collective talent of these folks might astound us!

I have no doubt that the US has the ability to design and develop a world class free pistol.

Such a development may possibly give rise to more people shooting this event as if commercial considerations were taken into account, the competition would be suitably marketed and sponsored. As it is an Olympic sport, it may increase “Olympic pistol” shooting participation in the US and maybe beyond as a consequence.

p.s. please remember your poor relations in the UK as we will need a version with a 305mm barrel and rear facing permanently attached counter balance bars (that don’t weight more than a postage stamp!

PaulT wrote:I have no doubt that the US has the ability to design and develop a world class free pistol.

Such a development may possibly give rise to more people shooting this event as if commercial considerations were taken into account, the competition would be suitably marketed and sponsored. As it is an Olympic sport, it may increase “Olympic pistol” shooting participation in the US and maybe beyond as a consequence.

p.s. please remember your poor relations in the UK as we will need a version with a 305mm barrel and rear facing permanently attached counter balance bars (that don’t weight more than a postage stamp!

Why just because there is a "US" made pistol would more people start shooting free pistol.

The development and production costs would be considerable. To make this a worthwhile exercise, the manufacturer will no doubt promote such a product with events to generate sales. Several shooting events have seen this strategy successfully implemented and several from the US have made their way to the UK.

I think the skills are there - but the market is filled up.

Consider: If you want to buy a free pistol, you can already buy from Hammerli, SAM, Pardini, Morini, and Toz. On top of that, FP is pretty stable technically. The older guns are still pretty competitive. Yes, the Morini is displacing the Toz - fifteen years after the CM-84 was introduced, and the Toz still holds the World Record.

No U.S. maker is likely to spend money on that.

The FP community is in the same barrel that we on the International Muzzle-Loading Team are in - the American manufacturers have chosen to target a very specific segment of the market. And it isn't ours.

PaulT wrote:The development and production costs would be considerable. To make this a worthwhile exercise, the manufacturer will no doubt promote such a product with events to generate sales. Several shooting events have seen this strategy successfully implemented and several from the US have made their way to the UK.

Such as? I can't think of any events that have been promoted because someone made a gun for it (not in NA anyways). Who are they going to promote it to, I don't think that there are 10's of thousands of people that will take up free pistol just because someone promotes it in the US.

No one is going to develop a free pistol that can be sold for under a $1000 dollars in the US.

Misny thinks a custom pistolsmith is going to develop and hand build a Free Pistol for less than $1000, that's not going to happen. A custom one off pistol will be many thousands of dollars and there is no guarentee that it will be better than what we already have.

There really is only a very very very very limited market for Free Pistols.

I think you would have to have something better, a real improvement. The bolt actions used for long range and benchrest are as fine as any in the world. I think the set trigger is the point for improvement. No smallbore rifle shooter would use a set trigger because of the increase in lock time. I don't know how the lock time of the TOZ compares with the electronic trigger of the Morini. The Jewel or other fine benchrest trigger would be light enough and faster than a set trigger. We also have many fine barrel makers in the US (Kreiger, Lilja, Hart, Shillen, etc.) I am pretty sure that a grip maker would give the project a whirl if you could send him a non functional model to use to make the grip. The gun would have to offer some real improvements to what is on the market now to be worth the work. You might be able to finace it by subscription of say 20 or 30 guns presold and prepaid at $1500 to $2000 each. buyers may have to wait a while, and realize that they are taking a share of the risk that it won't pan out in the end.

Small custom Bolt action(Stolle, Time precision)
Benchrest Trigger
Lilja barrel (can do many twists and grove configurations)
Rink Grip (seems to be a reliable and adaptable source)
Really great sights with lots of adjustment, and built to last
Willing pigeons (investors) :-)

Or I may be full of cheeze............

Dwight

With tha money you are throwing about the R&D could be done and off we go. For that matter why not start with a Ruger MKII upper reveiver and redesign from there???
jim

Tangohammerli,

There would be problems with starting with a Ruger Mk II upper. One would be, how would you get the bore line low enough? The good free pistol shooters want the bore axis about in the center of their hand. Also, I wouldn't think that the Ruger upper would lend itself to easy single loading of cartridges.

The only hope I can see for a US made free pistol is if a company of at least moderate size (e.g. Springfield Armory or larger) decided to create one as a prestige item. It would likely be a target shooting oriented company who wants to say "Our XX pistol won a world cup". Smaller companies probably couldn't handle the R&D and tooling costs which are very big to create a competitive and consistent product. Very large companies tend to be stiff an slow responding, and spend more for the same results.
A bolt action isn't the only choice. A falling block underlever like the old Martini International smallbore rifle will give as much rigidity and consistency as a bolt action. We have the good barrel and trigger makers needed, but putting it all together in a good workable package won't be easy.
RN