TargetTalk

[quote="Steve Swartz"]PV still equals nRT, it's just that the gas constant is smaller for nitrogen.[\quote]

That, and more importantly nitrogen from tanks is much dryer than just air from a trackside compressor. The expansion of the moisture with heat is the main contributor to pressure increase in racing tires using plain air.

just remember not to go diving with your scuba tank filled with 100% nitrogen....

Further to the original question,
I have an endless supply of 200 Bar Nitrogen available to me at no cost so was very interested in switching to the stuff.
As Pilkguns have offered no response to my question about warranty claims resulting from its use, I emailed Steyr for their advice.
Their reply from Technical Service is as follows; They have run no tests with Nitrogen so have no idea about life of the cylinder, or the life of the seals. They say with air, you will have no problems in the future.
I think the last comment "Please don't use Nitrogen" sums it up.
Use at your own risk and don't expect any support if things go wrong.
Unless I had factory backing or written dealer approval, I wouldn't touch it!!

Air is about 75% nitrogen. Shooting air versus nitrogen should be virtually identical. Seals, etc. are perfectly fine in pure nitrogen -- the things that deteriorate are usually affected by oxygen since it is an oxidant.

As an aside, I once developed software for the specialty steel industry. There is a process I used to optimize called an argon-oxygen converter which blows a mixture of these two gasses through molten steel to decarburize and then degassify. One company decided to save some money and use nitrogen instead of argon at an 80% nitrogen/20% oxygen mixture. Other than eliminating the CO2 in air and using vastly more expensive "air", this then is identical to an ancient process called a Bessemer converter which did blow air through molten steel. I was young and surprisingly was able to keep my mouth shut while in the presence of my clients but ....

Best,

Joe

The Nitrogen Paint ball guns that I refered to were for nitrogen not CO2. SO how many bars are most compressed air guns using?

I know I am taking a long time for posting my results with Nitrogen.....No I haven't yet blown myself up.....

Actually I have to get a brass adapter made which could be used to fill up my scuba tank since nitrogen and air use different muzzle size adapter......Moreover since I live in a rural area my access to a metal workshop is difficult so made the designs myself and making it at a local shop here

Will be able to post result by next sunday......

Sorry guys for keeping you are hanging in there..........Trying my best

Sorry and thanks al of you who pitched in to help me ....I really appreciate it

Take care
And keep shooting 10's

Kind Regards
Bijon

Bijon,I made some countings.Don't know what it will do with the gun,but theoretically:initial pellet speed will be a bit slower,shooting capacity will be bit lower.Not very much,physical properties of air and nitrogen are not identical,but the differences are not big.I do not think,you will notice any difference between CA and N2.

Regards and good luck
Jan

Yeah I know I too a really long time........The nitrogen works just fine.....I am still hitting 10's and 9's and some 7's the same way I was hitting with compressed air.......


It works just fine........

I tried it with my Steyr LP10 and a friend's morini......it was too good
I even used it with the Feinwerkbau Universal 700 match air rifle......it was equally good with that too.....

I will now stick with nitrogen for life

I stay in a tropical zone where temperatures now are around 46*c. I guess temperature is never an issue with CA guns but Nitrogen is working as good as the CA

I have used it for the past 5 days
All that i need to do now is get hold of a chronometer to get if the pellet velocity is same as in CA


I think it would be around the same mark coz the pellet goes crisply through the target and the metal behind is as loud as it was before


Thanks everbody who chose to share their opinion with me

Kind Regards
Bijon

Just wanted to update what I had mentioned before.

It is now close to 2 weeks me and my friends have been using Nitrogen rampantly in our Compressed air pistols and rifles

We donot notice any difference........but out of curiosity I did open the valve and trigger mechanism and they somehow seemed more cleaner than when I was using CA.....but it could be just my illusion

One is for sure Nitrogen works really great

Are others in this forum tried it too.......Scott I believe does.

Do post your experience and suggestions too

Kind Regards
Bijon

Time to update :

Well there is nothing more to say except that Nitrogen is shooting as good as Ca.

But I am happier with what Scott said....Atleast my dry nitrogen is better for my gun since it dosen't contain moisture and oxygen both of which are harmful for my gun since they oxidise parts and screw the cylinder too.

One more thing i have noticed is that earlier when i would use Ca and open my pistol after say 2 tins of pellets to clean I would find very small water droplets on the oiling inside, which needed to be swiped away with a clean cloth and lubrication would be done again. I was happy to see that I donot see those water drops now.

Believe me nitrogen shoots great with my steyr LP10 and my friends Morinis, pardinis and even with the FWB match Air Rifle

I hope more people start using it and post their coments regarding their experience with nitrogen

Take care
Kind Regards
Bijon

Just happen to have an Argon tank sitting in the garage for a TIG welder. Any thoughts on using this gas? It's inert and tank pressure is less tahn Nitrogen.

I'd think it should work. IIRC, the properties of argon are very similar to nitrogen.

Altrex wrote:Just happen to have an Argon tank sitting in the garage for a TIG welder. Any thoughts on using this gas? It's inert and tank pressure is less tahn Nitrogen.

Bear in mind just having compressed nitrogen around is itself dangerous.
In an enclosed space an unnoticed leak could lead to the oxygen being displaced and the inhabitants expiring.

A scuba size tank, say 10l, 200bar = 2000l = a 2x10x10 room at ambient, ie pretty big.

A 9 (I assume the '2' is wrong, very low ceiling otherwise) by 10X10 room holds 900 cubic feet of air. Unless the tank lets all of its argon/nitrogen out at once, the dilution factor for the oxygen in the room is minimal. If the tank does let it all at once, you probably will have other problems than the air quality (like a tank in flight).

Joe

jhurr wrote: A scuba size tank, say 10l, 200bar = 2000l = a 2x10x10 room at ambient, ie pretty big.

2000L = 2 meters X 1 meter X 1 Meter.
About half the size of small WC.

I really am a doofus, or was just too tired.

10litres@200bar = 10x200 = 2000litres@1bar approx

2000l = 2 cubic metres ie the size of a small WC indeed.

Still, below what concentration of oxygen do people pass out?

Not something to be taken lightly, you don't want to get to the point of passing out. As far as venting nitrogen, helium, etc, to atmosphere, each of our projects here at work requires a hazard analysis, as it is truly a life or death matter.

From our workplace training literature:

Normal breathing atmosphere is 21 % Oxygen.

An Oxygen Deficiency Hazard (ODH) atmosphere is defined as any time the oxygen concentration drops from 21% to 18% or less. [Fixed location O2 monitors alarm at 18% O2, while personal O2 monitors are set to alarm at 19.5% - giving workers time to escape]

... there are subtle changes that occur as the human body is exposed to reduced oxygen concentrations. The following chart details those changes with regard to the available percentage of O2. You will notice that the effects begin around 17%. This is one of the reasons that the personal oxygen monitors ... are set to alarm at 19.5% ...

Effect thresholds for exposure to reduced Oxygen (healthy individual):

17 % Night vision reduced, Increased breathing volume, Accelerated heartbeat

16 % Dizziness, Reaction time doubled for novel tasks

12 % Very faulty judgement, Very poor muscular coordination, Loss of consciousness, Permanent brain damage

10 % Inability to move, Nausea, Vomiting

6 % Spasmatic breathing, Convulsive movements, Death in 5 to 8 minutes.

I'm glad to hear Nitrogen will work for Air Pistol. I have a buddy who's just getting into AP but lives far enough from any scuba shops (he's off the grid in north east Arizona) that filtered compressed air will be an issue.

But he can have a tank of Nitrogen delivered from a welding supply dealer right to his doorstep.

Any thoughts on filtering requirements for the Nitrogen source, so he can ask an intelligent question of his supplier?

Thanks, Jon

Walter wrote:Race car drivers often use Nitrogen in their tires because it does not expand when temperatures increase.

we also use it for suspensions on both cars and motorcycles as well.

Walter wrote:
Race car drivers often use Nitrogen in their tires because it does not expand when temperatures increase.

I assume that race car drivers have somehow been able to invalidate the laws of physics -- the last time I did gas equations, it was still PV=nRT and that applies to all gasses. (What this says is pressure time volume is equal to a constant times temperature; temperature goes up, then pressure and/or volume must increase, too.)

Best,

Joe