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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:38 pm
by Cuervo79
Bob Riegl wrote:Not to decry any of the previous posts----but I find it hard to accept a "raw beginner" shooting 500+ after 2-3 months. These individuals must have so much raw talent and innate capabilities as to absolutely stun me. I am no expert, by far, but have been shooting and coaching for many years and have had only one cadet in many years pick up a pistol and shoot it so well in a very short time. The first thing we hear, and Steve will back me up on this, is "mass adjustment of grips", after 30 days of shooting----the complaining , cutting, sawing, filing & filling hystericallly begins. Outside of grips that are massivley outsized, the "beginner" hasn't a clue as to what he/she needs IMHO. Fooling with all kinds of trigger adjustments, is the next cry of the unwashed----adjusting the trigger weights to exact speciifications---is the next paranoia region that is sweated out. Woe betide the shooter whose trigger pull is 1.0000 grams away from the exact value called for in the almighty ISSF regs. Shoot a lot, have fun, don't worry about scores---hit the paper consistently and then refine from that point---KISMIF----keep it simple make it fun. Once consistent hits are on the paper then look for groups, and eventually adjust from that point. If your scores ( if you insist) drop all of a sudden---or level off---that's the learning curve----too much practise is worse than too little IMHO. HAVE FUN AND LEARN--AND BY ALL MEANS SHOOT COMPETITION WITHOUT FEELING YOU ARE GOING TO BE ASHAMED OF THE RESULTS. Take pride in what you do---things will get better---down the road.
I think it depends on the person, I have been training (trying to) 3 times a week at least 1:30 hours. for 3 months (if you subtract the days I haven't gone because of time constraints) and I'm at 511. I think time is taken differently for all people, if you take into account my first day of training and count the days to today Its been about 5 months.
And as you said it is VERY important to like the sport, I have been enjoying myself since I started and I have no regrets. Even now that's a little boring shooting only the back of the targets I enjoy it, and if not I shoot some in the front to keep on going. All in all depends allot on how you take it mentally.
cheers
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:02 pm
by coffeyhj
The first five...then trigger is two that's 6
What is the 6th point
I started focusing on this rmeoutine last night...made some slight adjustments in my sight and started nailing the black circle (hey I am new to this stuff) 22 out of 25 shots....my grouping improved dramatically as well when shooting blank targets.
So what is the magic 6th item
Thanks
HJC
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:01 pm
by Steve Swartz
Trigger counts as two:
1) does shot/snap release with absolutely zero disturbance to the background wobble of the perfvectly aligned sights; and
2) was the shot released with zero conscious command i.e. "it broke on it's own" (much easier to do on blank aiming area- the *only* way to learn this automatic break is with *lots* of blank surface training)
Steve
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:06 pm
by Mark Briggs
Hmmm, interesting. My experience is limited, but I can say that after 3 months with my trusty Tau-7 I was shooting in the mid 510's, and after 6 months had broken into the mid 520's. I'm no whiz-bang shooter, and recent scores make me wonder if I've ever learned anything about pistol shooting, but as a guy who had experience shooting lots of groundhogs as a kid, getting the hang of trigger control, sight alignment and stance wasn't too difficult. Once I hit the 530's progress slowed considerably, and I'm still struggling to shoot 560 on a regular basis a few years later.
It IS possible to learn to shoot pistol fairly quickly, but it is also perfectly natural to hit a score plateau which will take many months or even years to overcome. Steve Swartz has it right in terms of where to focus - on the technique of delivering a perfect shot, rather than on the score. As long as you continue to work your technique your scores will slowly improve.
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:17 pm
by sparky
What a wierd question, considering how everyone is different.
Have you ever intentionally shot a ten?
Assuming you have, then you should be shooting 600 every single time.
After all, you are physically capable. Now it is just a matter of eliminating the errors that result in less than a ten, so that you consistently shoot tens.
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:11 pm
by Guest
yes this concept isnt new. shooting isnt about getting tens its about eliminating the bad shots coz all others would be good and therefore tens. sure there are times where i can tell even before lifting the pistol that this will be a ten but they are so rare that its impossible to reproduce when i need it.
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:37 am
by Richard H
Bob Riegl wrote:Not to decry any of the previous posts----but I find it hard to accept a "raw beginner" shooting 500+ after 2-3 months. These individuals must have so much raw talent and innate capabilities as to absolutely stun me. I am no expert, by far, but have been shooting and coaching for many years and have had only one cadet in many years pick up a pistol and shoot it so well in a very short time. The first thing we hear, and Steve will back me up on this, is "mass adjustment of grips", after 30 days of shooting----the complaining , cutting, sawing, filing & filling hystericallly begins. Outside of grips that are massivley outsized, the "beginner" hasn't a clue as to what he/she needs IMHO. Fooling with all kinds of trigger adjustments, is the next cry of the unwashed----adjusting the trigger weights to exact speciifications---is the next paranoia region that is sweated out. Woe betide the shooter whose trigger pull is 1.0000 grams away from the exact value called for in the almighty ISSF regs. Shoot a lot, have fun, don't worry about scores---hit the paper consistently and then refine from that point---KISMIF----keep it simple make it fun. Once consistent hits are on the paper then look for groups, and eventually adjust from that point. If your scores ( if you insist) drop all of a sudden---or level off---that's the learning curve----too much practise is worse than too little IMHO. HAVE FUN AND LEARN--AND BY ALL MEANS SHOOT COMPETITION WITHOUT FEELING YOU ARE GOING TO BE ASHAMED OF THE RESULTS. Take pride in what you do---things will get better---down the road.
Don't forget getting the best cheap pellets for practice and finding the cheapest typing paper onto which to print targets (so they can save a couple of pennys while shooting their $1500 dollar air pistol).
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:14 pm
by Houngan
Bob Riegl wrote:Not to decry any of the previous posts----but I find it hard to accept a "raw beginner" shooting 500+ after 2-3 months. These individuals must have so much raw talent and innate capabilities as to absolutely stun me. I am no expert, by far, but have been shooting and coaching for many years and have had only one cadet in many years pick up a pistol and shoot it so well in a very short time. The first thing we hear, and Steve will back me up on this, is "mass adjustment of grips", after 30 days of shooting----the complaining , cutting, sawing, filing & filling hystericallly begins. Outside of grips that are massivley outsized, the "beginner" hasn't a clue as to what he/she needs IMHO. Fooling with all kinds of trigger adjustments, is the next cry of the unwashed----adjusting the trigger weights to exact speciifications---is the next paranoia region that is sweated out. Woe betide the shooter whose trigger pull is 1.0000 grams away from the exact value called for in the almighty ISSF regs. Shoot a lot, have fun, don't worry about scores---hit the paper consistently and then refine from that point---KISMIF----keep it simple make it fun. Once consistent hits are on the paper then look for groups, and eventually adjust from that point. If your scores ( if you insist) drop all of a sudden---or level off---that's the learning curve----too much practise is worse than too little IMHO. HAVE FUN AND LEARN--AND BY ALL MEANS SHOOT COMPETITION WITHOUT FEELING YOU ARE GOING TO BE ASHAMED OF THE RESULTS. Take pride in what you do---things will get better---down the road.
What level of beginner are we talking about? Beginning precision pistol, or beginning any form of shooting? I've been a shooter my entire life, although never competitive until I started shooting IPSC.
Last winter I bought an IZH-46m and started shooting in my basement. I'd say I was holding the black except for one flier out of 10 shots within a month. After I understood some things about the grip, probably a month later, I was shooting 82% or so consistently in practice. After about 3000 rounds downrange, I could very consistently throw a 530-540. But then, I've always been a good pistol shot, even without having picked up an ergonomic grip before.
Oh, and I made my own left-handed grip for the IZH, it's a freakin' monstrosity. Sheets of laminate flooring with leather glued on, and a chunk of 2x4 for a thumb shelf.
The point is, a "cadet" sounds to me like a young person with no firearms experience at all. An adult picking up the sport after a lifetime of shooting may be an entirely different matter.
And I think you probably have touched on the real point: I've always been anti-equipment racing, from golf to guns. While I had to make my own grips due to left-hander bigotry in the shooting sports, once I had a decent set I stopped blaming them for anything. I haven't adjusted the trigger at all, except for glueing on a widener so I could reach it from the left.
H.