TargetTalk

R.M. wrote:I would assume the CF record would have to start all over again as the triggers are now 1000g, correct?

Not necessarily.

Since any match shot under the old rules (post 01/01/1989) would still comply with the new rules, I presume they could actually leave the records running.

This is a great historical interlude---but God do I love that event---we shoot a bastardized form of that event using a shortened event of 30 shots (15 precision+15 rapid). Problem is most of the shooters use dot sights, only a few use irons. But it is still a great match to use revolvers, if I could only find a S&W K-32------sigh!. "Doc"

Either the originals (or exceptionally well made copies) of the TD Smith record hang on my club wall in Melbourne.

I cut out a current 10 ring from a round target and held it over the duelling group on the world record target. Although the oval target was in use at the time, if scored on a current round target it would still be a 299.

So although not official, it proves 597 is possible on the current target.

CROB wrote:So although not official, it proves 597 is possible on the current target.

Not only possible, it has been done. Yusuf Dikec did it in the CISM Championships a few years ago. Shame it wasn't a match that qualified for ISSF World Records.

CROB wrote:Either the originals (or exceptionally well made copies) of the TD Smith record hang on my club wall in Melbourne.

I cut out a current 10 ring from a round target and held it over the duelling group on the world record target. Although the oval target was in use at the time, if scored on a current round target it would still be a 299.

So although not official, it proves 597 is possible on the current target.

Very cool, thanks for posting this little tidbit. I have never shot on the "tombstone" targets so I've often wondered how much "easier" they would be. My inclination has been "not much". You still have to shoot the groups.

Same goes for the new 1000g trigger weight limit. I've shot exactly one CF match with the 1000g trigger, and my results were - shall we say - sub-par ;).

David Levene wrote:

CROB wrote:So although not official, it proves 597 is possible on the current target.

Not only possible, it has been done. Yusuf Dikec did it in the CISM Championships a few years ago. Shame it wasn't a match that qualified for ISSF World Records.

It really should, IMO. Too bad it doesn't.

The CF WR has always struck me as kind of low, especially when it was at 590 for so long. For the US record to be above (or now, equal to) the WR is kind of unusual, although I guess it is for Standard Pistol as well.

john bickar wrote:...I have never shot on the "tombstone" targets so I've often wondered how much "easier" they would be...

Having lived through the 'changes', I must admit that it was more of a psychological barrier than any real barrier.
The change from the older long targets to the shortened rectangle seemed to have little, if any, affect on scores in Rapid Fire or Centerfire; but the change to the circular target caught most of us out.

From an expected CF 'duelling' of about 290, my scores dropped dramatically - only to get even worse when the white lines were introduced. I was so discouraged that I gave up on CF for many years.
I know (for me) it was mental glitch - much older, out of condition and not training for competition I can now surprise myself with an occasional 280+ in training...

Spencer wrote:

john bickar wrote:...I have never shot on the "tombstone" targets so I've often wondered how much "easier" they would be...

Having lived through the 'changes', I must admit that it was more of a psychological barrier than any real barrier.
The change from the older long targets to the shortened rectangle seemed to have little, if any, affect on scores in Rapid Fire or Centerfire; but the change to the circular target caught most of us out.

From an expected CF 'duelling' of about 290, my scores dropped dramatically - only to get even worse when the white lines were introduced. I was so discouraged that I gave up on CF for many years.
I know (for me) it was mental glitch - much older, out of condition and not training for competition I can now surprise myself with an occasional 280+ in training...

Hrmmm...interesting. The biggest difference I can think of is that the "tombstone" targets give you a much longer time to be "in the black" and therefore be getting on the trigger. Of course, it shouldn't be any different with the circular targets, but there's a Texas mile between "shouldn't" and "does" :D

only to get even worse when the white lines were introduced

Whoa, really? I was in the game when that change happened, and it made not a lick of difference to me. Why so?

john bickar wrote:...

only to get even worse when the white lines were introduced

Whoa, really? I was in the game when that change happened, and it made not a lick of difference to me. Why so?

I was still persevering (half-heartedly) with a bit of CF, but at the time the introuction of the white lines cruelled it totally for me.
Probably I could not avoid focussing at (on?) the target when the white lines were introduced; but I was not the only one.

Lately when shooting RFP or CF I cannot recall seeing the white lines when mentally 'replaying' a series.
For CF I am not altering my sights after Precision , and letting the 'Duelling' shots off as the sight picture passes the bottom of the target - with the occassional 280+ to show for it.

As an aside, the change to the circular target effectively killed RFP here in AUS. Before that change, at my club you had to get to the range early and get your name on the board to shoot RFP; within a few months there was a problem getting a few shooters together to shoot the event.

john bickar wrote:The CF WR has always struck me as kind of low, especially when it was at 590 for so long. For the US record to be above (or now, equal to) the WR is kind of unusual, although I guess it is for Standard Pistol as well.

It is really all down to the number of opportunities there are to break records.

How many opportunities are there every 4 years to break a CF or StP National record. Compare that to the number of opportunities to break the World records in those events. As an example, Nestruev would only have 2 chances every 4 years in each event for the World Record; the World and European Championships.