Newbie shooting question

[nmondal]

This is today.
Very less 10s.



May be my eye sight?

Do you have a coach? If not, find one - somebody who can observe your training, shooting, and draw logical conclusions from what he sees. It really seems like you're flailing around with no sense of direction.

I have one, in the range. He guides me.
On the other hand Willam is there something I need to focus on more?
I am shooting part time for last 2.5 years now, max 1 hour a day.
Objective is to reach to avg 96/100 by end of 2021.

Please let me know what I need to do more.
All the hints and guidance you guys have given me are invaluable, and I am pretty sure this thread will help a lot of people like me.
Please continue to guide and helping!
Seems like coaching by correspondence works!

[Gwhite]

This is today.
Very less 10s.



May be my eye sight?

I don't recall your saying if you shoot with any sort of special glasses. Even then, if you spend all day staring at a computer screen, there's only so much they can do.

The front sight MUST ALWAYS be in sharp focus when the shot breaks.

[atomicgale]

I am shooting part time for last 2.5 years now, max 1 hour a day.
Objective is to reach to avg 96/100 by end of 2021.

"avg 96/100" would be 576 for match.
Goal setting is GREAT!

Keeping in perspective: Actual results from Men's AP Olympic Trials (top 8 scores):
C-Springs (Dec 2019)
Match one: 578,571,571,569,565,564,563,562
Match two: 580,573,572,569,568,568,567,566
Benning (Feb 2020):
Match three: 577,573,572,572,570,569,568,567
Match four: 580,580,574,574,571,571,571,569

Consider other certain benchmarks:
90.0/100 = ave "9" or better; match = 540+
92.5/100 = 555 for match - Pilk offered a free Steyr LP10-long back in the day (& NO ONE won the free gun - EVER!)
93.8/100 = 563 which is "MQS" Minimum Qualification Score for Men's AP to go to Olympics (must be made in sanctioned match)

Then there's the issue of "practice" scores versus "going-to-the-match" scores.

KEEP UP THE HARD WORK!!!

reference link: https://www.issf-sports.org/competition ... fiers.ashx

[BobGee]

nmondal, with respect to coaching, have you thought of Hemant Jadhav of www.foresightshooting.com? He is base in India (not sure where but he would be easier to talk to) and seems to have a string of ISSF and other qualifications. Along with his online course, he runs one-on-one workshops. He focuses on match shooting. Obviously he doesn’t do it for nothing but in one of his video clips (which can get a little tedious due to repetition) he summarises the cost of learning to shoot, inferring that following his course can be a money saver.

I hasten to add that I have no connection with the man.

Bob

[nmondal]

nmondal, with respect to coaching, have you thought of Hemant Jadhav of www.foresightshooting.com? He is base in India (not sure where but he would be easier to talk to) and seems to have a string of ISSF and other qualifications. Along with his online course, he runs one-on-one workshops. He focuses on match shooting. Obviously he doesn’t do it for nothing but in one of his video clips (which can get a little tedious due to repetition) he summarises the cost of learning to shoot, inferring that following his course can be a money saver.

I hasten to add that I have no connection with the man.

Bob

Thanks Bob.. I do have a coach in the range, and honestly he helps me a lot. But he is not a personal coach.
Also I can see you people are helping me in ways ... that is unimaginable .. and it is helping me, specifically and any newbie ( it will ) a lot.
I will consider coaching once I cross National Hardle.

[nmondal]

I am shooting part time for last 2.5 years now, max 1 hour a day.
Objective is to reach to avg 96/100 by end of 2021.

"avg 96/100" would be 576 for match.
Goal setting is GREAT!

Keeping in perspective: Actual results from Men's AP Olympic Trials (top 8 scores):
C-Springs (Dec 2019)
Match one: 578,571,571,569,565,564,563,562
Match two: 580,573,572,569,568,568,567,566
Benning (Feb 2020):
Match three: 577,573,572,572,570,569,568,567
Match four: 580,580,574,574,571,571,571,569

Consider other certain benchmarks:
90.0/100 = ave "9" or better; match = 540+
92.5/100 = 555 for match - Pilk offered a free Steyr LP10-long back in the day (& NO ONE won the free gun - EVER!)
93.8/100 = 563 which is "MQS" Minimum Qualification Score for Men's AP to go to Olympics (must be made in sanctioned match)

Then there's the issue of "practice" scores versus "going-to-the-match" scores.

KEEP UP THE HARD WORK!!!

reference link: https://www.issf-sports.org/competition ... fiers.ashx

Thanks atomicgale - when I was studying... I was told - to have a very high bar.
The trouble with India, and it's population, is the following are the cut-offs.
India Cut offs
===========================================
345/400. ( 40 shots ) --> cut off for south zone
365/400. ( 40 shots ) --> cut off for pre nationals
575/600. ( 60 shots ) --> cut off for national team qualifiers ( 8 will be selected for National Coaching Camp )
=============================================
And we still sucked.. in Olympics.
I heard in one of the youtube replays on world cups.. 96 is a score that is OK score for an international event.
So what I was taught, since kid-hood is, when we do something we must go full way. Hence 96/100.

====
Today I went to the range and shot some 48 shots.. I think.

There were 2 X 8s and 1 X 7.
Rest all were 9+.
In fact I was shooting alternate 10,9.
I think thanks to all of you, your advises and support.. I am getting a good idea what needs to be done.
Now, I need to replicate it back to tournaments.

[atomicgale]

Consider other certain benchmarks:
90.0/100 = ave "9" or better; match = 540+
92.5/100 = 555 for match - Pilk offered a free Steyr LP10-long back in the day (& NO ONE won the free gun - EVER!)
93.8/100 = 563 which is "MQS" Minimum Qualification Score for Men's AP to go to Olympics (must be made in sanctioned match)
India Cut offs
345/400. ( 40 shots ) --> cut off for south zone (ave 86.2/100 517/600)
365/400. ( 40 shots ) --> cut off for pre nationals (ave 91.2/100 547/600)
575/600. ( 60 shots ) --> cut off for national team qualifiers - a bit "demanding" as 578 made Olympic finals.

Comparing to actual cards on Olympic qualifier for top scoring American Men's AP: 577-23x, one point off finals:

[nmondal]

Consider other certain benchmarks:
90.0/100 = ave "9" or better; match = 540+
92.5/100 = 555 for match - Pilk offered a free Steyr LP10-long back in the day (& NO ONE won the free gun - EVER!)
93.8/100 = 563 which is "MQS" Minimum Qualification Score for Men's AP to go to Olympics (must be made in sanctioned match)
India Cut offs
345/400. ( 40 shots ) --> cut off for south zone (ave 86.2/100 517/600)
365/400. ( 40 shots ) --> cut off for pre nationals (ave 91.2/100 547/600)
575/600. ( 60 shots ) --> cut off for national team qualifiers - a bit "demanding" as 578 made Olympic finals.

Comparing to actual cards on Olympic qualifier for top scoring American Men's AP: 577-23x, one point off finals:

Thank you! That means more work to do.. and more practice to be done!

[atomicgale]

Thank you! That means more work to do.. and more practice to be done!

And we (India) still sucked.. in Olympics.

I must have missed the part where "India . . . sucked." Saurabh had top score in Qualifier: 586-28x. He ran 23-straight 10's (#26-#48).
(We'll ignore the 5-straight 9's (#6-#10), and whatever happened in the Final . . . .)

Here's his Qualifier cards:







Seriously, this guy should go on a Wheaties box . . . .

What do you win in India, if you win the country's Olympic Trials?
(Here in the USA . . . the grand prize was a pair of plastic hearing protection . . . . )

[nmondal]

Thank you! That means more work to do.. and more practice to be done!

And we (India) still sucked.. in Olympics.

I must have missed the part where "India . . . sucked." Saurabh had top score in Qualifier: 586-28x. He ran 23-straight 10's (#26-#48).
(We'll ignore the 5-straight 9's (#6-#10), and whatever happened in the Final . . . .)


Seriously, this guy should go on a Wheaties box . . . .

What do you win in India, if you win the country's Olympic Trials?
(Here in the USA . . . the grand prize was a pair of plastic hearing protection . . . . )

Saurabh Chaudhury is GOAT, or next GOAT.
There was Jim Jong Oh, and now world has Saurabh.
No one can be Saurabh. Legend is, he scored a 8.0 in some world cup final, and then he came back after shooting 2 consecutive 10.9s.
He is utter genius.
But that does not mean he can not suck.
If you notice - India has 0 medals coming from whole shooting group. And honestly we had world no 2,3 and world no 1 in Air Pistol shooting.
This wiki page is the very definition of SUCK ( @ Olympics )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_sports_in_India

While one must not think about results, one must focus on getting the result.

Now about Olympic Trials. There are NONE. Absolutely none.
In India, they have pool of 10~12 top shooters - who on average can crack 580 any day, any time.
Out of these 10 - 8 plays for national team.
No one "cracks" it. NRAI just.. announces it.

https://thebridge.in/shooting/indian-sh ... nced-20577
Honestly, if you ask me, I just want to dawn the blue jersey.
Will feel like I gave back something to the country. And it does not hurt that I kinda like shooting, I LOVE shooting. Always did.

This is today. Very quick 0 prep 20 shots over 20 mins impromptu.

Objective is to take this score to 96/100, w/o prep seamless.

[atomicgale]

No one can be Saurabh; He is utter genius.

No, no . . . Rover is GENIUS! No one can be Rover.

. . . everyone else such an 'also ran' . . . .

[nmondal]

Today at range.



From 7th shot.. lack of concentration.
Baah!!!!

[atomicgale]

Looks like Saurabh's second card at the Finals:


Speaking of the AP Olympic Finals, what went wrong?
Converting their first ten shots back to integer scoring, cards read as follows:
97/100
95/100
96/100
94/100
93/100
96/100
93/100 (Saurabh)(equivalent to 558/600)
92/100

With TEN "8's" between them for 150 shots in Final . . .
compared to FOUR "8's" by this group for their ENTIRE 480 shot Qualification.

[nmondal]

Speaking of the AP Olympic Finals, what went wrong?

I have a semi rigorous statistical analysis done - and it is about "peaking up too early".
You can find the answer here.
https://qr.ae/pGbGf0
And yes, I can be obviously wrong.
But I really, really doubt it.

[atomicgale]

I have a semi rigorous statistical analysis done - And yes, I can be obviously wrong.

Gonna disagree here:
Absolutely NO STOCHASTIC PROGRAMMING OR PREDICTION in shooting sports. Results entirely DETERMINISTIC. Results entirely based on skill.

The great Atomic has spoken!

[nmondal]

LOL. Fine.
This is today.


1st and 3rd series.
( Completely lost in on 2nd series only 8,9 and 1 7 and 2 10s.)
====
If I focus on scoring 10, I sucketh.
I can not control it. I can not control and say - I am going to shoot a 10.
What crazy sport is this? Is that normal? Is that is the thing? Like Nirvana?

When I was a badminton player - I could control it, shuttle, racket you name it.
Here I just can not.

If I just focus on focussing.. it is almost invariably coming 10s, mostly high 10s, worst case low 10s.
Rare cases high 9s.

[Gwhite]

If you have been concentrating on your shot process and NOT scores, you should have developed at least some feel for when a shot is unfolding properly. If a shot doesn't feel like it's going to be a 10, PUT THE PISTOL DOWN. Mentally review your shot process, and then try again.

If you have a bad shot, don't dwell on it. You will only reinforce it. Quickly identify what part of your shot process was lacking, and focus on correcting it.

If you are having a bad day, DON'T practice shooting poorly. You will only get better at it. Do some drills or physical training instead.

[nmondal]

If you have been concentrating on your shot process and NOT scores, you should have developed at least some feel for when a shot is unfolding properly. If a shot doesn't feel like it's going to be a 10, PUT THE PISTOL DOWN. Mentally review your shot process, and then try again.

If you have a bad shot, don't dwell on it. You will only reinforce it. Quickly identify what part of your shot process was lacking, and focus on correcting it.

If you are having a bad day, DON'T practice shooting poorly. You will only get better at it. Do some drills or physical training instead.

Thanks GWhite, I could call out all the bad shots. All of them.
But I can not call out most of the great shots.
I can not call out 10.5+ vs 10.0 at all.
But I can call out 10 from 9 and 8 and 7.
Is that normal?

[Gwhite]

Telling the difference between a deep inner ten & a so-so ten will come with time. If you can call all of your shots within +/- 1 hour & 1 ring, you are doing OK, but can do better.

The trick is learning when you are about to shoot an 8, and stopping yourself. If it doesn't look like it's going to be a 10, or it doesn't feel like it's going to be a 10, abort and restart your shot process.

[nmondal]

Telling the difference between a deep inner ten & a so-so ten will come with time. If you can call all of your shots within +/- 1 hour & 1 ring, you are doing OK, but can do better.

The trick is learning when you are about to shoot an 8, and stopping yourself. If it doesn't look like it's going to be a 10, or it doesn't feel like it's going to be a 10, abort and restart your shot process.

This restart.. business is making me stall. Like forever. I pick up and I think no it is not going to be 10, so I drop it.
Do it like 10 times even.
Lose out minutes. Then mostly a bad shot happens - sometimes a great shot happens.
Yesterday at range it was a 10.6, today it was an 8 I think.


I think I am .. stalled for now at 94/100 for the moment.
I can see the errors, need to improve on them.