TargetTalk

Something that I'm interested in due to my club's activities is how long would it take these rules to propagate to NRA International Pistol? I'm sure I'll find out eventually, but I want to get an idea of whether or not these might hit before our season (figure late January to March). Probably the only changes that we would need to worry about are the timing changes.

kirtar wrote:Something that I'm interested in due to my club's activities is how long would it take these rules to propagate to NRA International Pistol? I'm sure I'll find out eventually, but I want to get an idea of whether or not these might hit before our season (figure late January to March). Probably the only changes that we would need to worry about are the timing changes.

The answer is probably never. I have never been at an NRA international match with a large enough attendance to even have a final. As far as I know, most of the NRA pistol rules have changed little since USA shooting and NRA shooting split from each other. I dont think you have much to worry about. The NRA pistol committee meets once a year. I may be wrong but I believe the meeting is at Camp Perry in July. If they propose any changes next year, you will have plenty of time to react.

Isabel1130 wrote:

kirtar wrote:Something that I'm interested in due to my club's activities is how long would it take these rules to propagate to NRA International Pistol? I'm sure I'll find out eventually, but I want to get an idea of whether or not these might hit before our season (figure late January to March). Probably the only changes that we would need to worry about are the timing changes.

The answer is probably never. I have never been at an NRA international match with a large enough attendance to even have a final. As far as I know, most of the NRA pistol rules have changed little since USA shooting and NRA shooting split from each other. I dont think you have much to worry about. The NRA pistol committee meets once a year. I may be wrong but I believe the meeting is at Camp Perry in July. If they propose any changes next year, you will have plenty of time to react.

Ok so we probably won't have to deal with it if only because of the timing. I was under the impression that the time limit changes were across the board and not just finals. The timing changes are probably the only thing that would have really affected us.

If the NRA decides to shorten the times, the earliest I think it would kick in would be January of 2014, in time for the international sectionals that year. I would think a lot of your particpants in the NRA international matches would also shoot USA shooting matches, and they might automatically shorten the times for air and free at the same time the ISSF rules take effect.

Isabel1130 wrote:
The answer is probably never. I have never been at an NRA international match with a large enough attendance to even have a final. As far as I know, most of the NRA pistol rules have changed little since USA shooting and NRA shooting split from each other. I dont think you have much to worry about. The NRA pistol committee meets once a year. I may be wrong but I believe the meeting is at Camp Perry in July. If they propose any changes next year, you will have plenty of time to react.

Kirtar has a very good point, and Isabel1130's reply above might be true for where she lives, but is definitely not true where I live. We recently had the CRPA (our NRA affiliate) California state championships for FP, SP, CF and WSP. The matches were run using current ISSF timings as close as we could, given our paper targets (we did not run finals). We had 20 shooters on the line for FP, and nearly as many for the other matches. These international matches, like many of the international matches in our area, were co-registered with the NRA and the USAS.

I could be very mistaken, but it's been my understanding that the NRA international pistol rules, which are published in a different booklet than the conventional pistol rules, have always attempted to mirror the ISSF rules - or more accurately the USAS version of the ISSF rules. I doubt that the pistol committee even concerns itself with international rules. I don't know how the NRA international rules get changed. In the past, the various ISSF rule changes have sort of filtered down to our level by word of mouth and been implemented as best we could (e.g. the change in CF precision from 6 to 5 minutes). But there has been nothing as radical as the current timing changes in the last 15-20(?) years.

FredB

If you are going to run a match that is co registered, of course you will have to abide by the USA shooting rules. You could be right about the NRA pistol committee, but other than the international sectionals, I have never been to a strictly NRA international match. A bigger concern might be how they apply the new ISSF rules to collegiate shooting, where they are right in the middle of their shooting year. Isnt their finals usually in March? Would it be fair or reasonable to chage the rules in the middle of their winter match schedule?

Isabel1130 wrote:If you are going to run a match that is co registered, of course you will have to abide by the USA shooting rules. You could be right about the NRA pistol committee, but other than the international sectionals, I have never been to a strictly NRA international match. A bigger concern might be how they apply the new ISSF rules to collegiate shooting, where they are right in the middle of their shooting year. Isnt their finals usually in March? Would it be fair or reasonable to chage the rules in the middle of their winter match schedule?

Collegiate shooting was actually what I was aiming at (pun not intended, but rather appropriate). Yes, our finals are in March with the sectional that we attend in early February.

Isabel1130 wrote:

kirtar wrote:Something that I'm interested in due to my club's activities is how long would it take these rules to propagate to NRA International Pistol? I'm sure I'll find out eventually, but I want to get an idea of whether or not these might hit before our season (figure late January to March). Probably the only changes that we would need to worry about are the timing changes.

The answer is probably never. I have never been at an NRA international match with a large enough attendance to even have a final. As far as I know, most of the NRA pistol rules have changed little since USA shooting and NRA shooting split from each other. I dont think you have much to worry about. The NRA pistol committee meets once a year. I may be wrong but I believe the meeting is at Camp Perry in July. If they propose any changes next year, you will have plenty of time to react.

I am currently writting some suggested changes to go to the NRA Pistol Committee to get the some of the NRA rules up to where they should have been about 10 years ago. Currently there is nothing in NRA International Pistol rules about how to operate a match using electronic targets. It only says that they are "authorized". At the US collegiate pistol championships at Ft. Benning for the last few years we have had to adopt by match director's bulletin the ISSF rules related to electronic target operation.

It is my understanding that the NRA Pistol Committee will meet by teleconference in a few weeks.

Those who find new "all start even in the final" rule illogical might like to sign an online petitionagainst it. Quite a number of olympic level shooters have singed it so far.

http://www.petitiononline.com/ruleISSF/petition.html

kirtar wrote:Collegiate shooting was actually what I was aiming at (pun not intended, but rather appropriate). Yes, our finals are in March with the sectional that we attend in early February.

I was informed that since NCAA has already begun their season, that they will stick with the current rules for this year (2013).

2014 may bring changes (???)

By email just now:

Here is the final version of the rule:

8.4.1.6 Movement or Oscillation Reduction Systems. Any device, mechanism or system that actively reduces, slows or minimizes pistol oscillations or movements before the shot is released is prohibited.

This new rule will not prohibit any feature on current rifles and pistols as they are now designed and produced because this new rule is concerned with systems that might be used to control pistol movements BEFORE the shot.
With best regards,
Gary Anderson

Sparks wrote:Here is the final version of the rule:

8.4.1.6 Movement or Oscillation Reduction Systems. Any device, mechanism or system that actively reduces, slows or minimizes pistol oscillations or movements before the shot is released is prohibited.

This new rule will not prohibit any feature on current rifles and pistols as they are now designed and produced because this new rule is concerned with systems that might be used to control pistol movements BEFORE the shot.
With best regards,
Gary Anderson

Of course it does not include rifle because it only says pistol.

jhmartin wrote:Of course it does not include rifle because it only says pistol.

You won't find much in section 8 that refers to rifle. I'm sure there will be a similar rule in section 7 that does say rifle.

Sounds like a reasonable rule to me, just needing a common sense application at match level.

Yeah .... OK, I did not notice the section.

Wonder why they did not put it in 6.4?

I'll amend my rant.

I think this is decent wording as well. (Now that I was pointed to the section it is in ... thanks David)

jhmartin wrote:Wonder why they did not put it in 6.4?

IMHO it is far preferable to have this type of rule in the specific discipline sections, even if it does create a duplication. It's far easier to keep all of the technical rules relating to the construction of the firearm together. If you want to know what you can do to your rifle then look it all up in section 7; similarly section 8 for pistol.

We already have an example of such duplication in the current rules; 7.4.1.4 and 8.4.1.4 relating to electronic triggers.

FredB wrote:"athletes must walk normally at all times while on the field of play"

Will this rule be enforced by the Bureau of Silly Walks?

LOL

So by the sound of it Australia arent going to adopt the new formats next year. they are going to stick with the old issf rules. apparently 4 months from jan before nationals isnt enought time to make the changes. although we all already know they are coming