TargetTalk

Russ, just when I thought you were going to make nice with people here, you pull out that razor sharp tongue again. I have to ask, what exactly are you trying to accomplish here? This is not very effective advertising for your services, even considering the little smily faces. Is your hope to insult people into submitting to your way of thinking? If so, I do not think it is working. In a sport where positive thinking is paramount, I find this approach surprising to say the least. Your knee jerk reactions seem to be very negative. In your time as a competitive shooter, this mindset no doubt kept your decent scores from becoming good scores. You evidently had the physical talents in place, but just couldn't quite get there mentally. In the end though, I guess this describes lots of shooting careers...almost there. I was almost there too, but at least my shooting limitations were not due to being negative. Good luck.

BEA wrote:Russ, just when I thought you were going to make nice with people here, you pull out that razor sharp tongue again. I have to ask, what exactly are you trying to accomplish here? This is not very effective advertising for your services, even considering the little smily faces. Is your hope to insult people into submitting to your way of thinking? If so, I do not think it is working. In a sport where positive thinking is paramount, I find this approach surprising to say the least. Your knee jerk reactions seem to be very negative. In your time as a competitive shooter, this mindset no doubt kept your decent scores from becoming good scores. You evidently had the physical talents in place, but just couldn't quite get there mentally. In the end though, I guess this describes lots of shooting careers...almost there. I was almost there too, but at least my shooting limitations were not due to being negative. Good luck.

Okay guys. I’m sorry. Please do not use IZH -53 for competitions. Please read the manual first. It is not manufactured for competitions. It is a wrong tool for practice.

I have to ask, what exactly are you trying to accomplish here?

My initial attempt was to help. My statements were attacked "avatars". I started to practice a little to prove my point. I did it Okay. Right now, I’m willing to improve my grammar too. With the same reason to help!

I was almost there too

Were? There? Almost? Too? :)
Please help me to understand your message.

The second reason of why I'm here is: to help someone who is looking for the answers and to understand about some gap from "be there" and "almost be there"!
Sorry, BEA... I did not remember you.

Well, Izh-53 as training pistol…. Being a “shovel” it still has number of strong educational points.

First one is a dreadful trigger, which is heavy initially that gets softer after first 3-5 mm of pull (out of almost 7-8mm of total pull). Trigger weight is adjustable only in conjunction with travel, but the relative smoothness (once the trigger blade passes the initial strong resistance) in the final travel, prior to piston release, compensates this. The trigger weight itself is more then 650 gr. which does not make much difference for me (large hand with strong fingers). It teaches you to be very slow with it if you want to hit anything.

The second one is the recoil and low pellet speed. If you do not follow through properly even a small lack of concentration pushes pellets out of black ring. So, two very important segments of the pistol shooting are covered by Izh-53, the trigger control and proper follow through.

The biggest drawback for me was need to hold it strongly otherwise the recoil would spoil the follow through, not so pronounced for the first 40 shoots but the last 20 were always worse then they should be. Grip is of proper size, at least for me, but the lack of grip ramp didn’t allow for fully consistent grip.

Anyway, I moved to better equipment (FWB C-20) recently and all those lessons that were hard learned on Izh-53 are paying off. To be honest I shot the FWB C-20 only at 6 trainings and while score jump is not so high (cca. 535) at the first glance the actual groups are nothing to be ashamed off. The score is spoiled with high number of fly-offs (meaning hits in 6 or 7 ring), one or two per ten shoots because I’m still learning when to abort the shoot, which I usually never do. That part of the shooting I still need to master, but I’m encouraged to continue learning because on two series I shoot (with C-20) 97 and 98 out of possible 100, which gave me insight what I can achieve once I can get rid of the fly-offs and polish other elements of the technique.

I like learning the hard way and my whole life tells me I am right when start with really bad equipment. You do not only learn basics but also work on yourself to overcome the equipment deficiencies (I skied a lot and can tell difference between skies as soon as a make one sharp turn on them), which once you moved to better equipment gives you nothing but advantage. That said, I continue to welcome people to buy best equipment that want and can afford. It makes people happy and once they realise that the equipment doesn’t bring good results they can finally pay attention to good training.

"Well, Izh-53 as training pistol"

Well it's not even a training pistol either! You can’t teach or understand grip control or learn how to ”call the shot” with this device. Any of the fundamentals cannot be learned properly with this device. Sorry, I forgot about position and NPA!

My latest personal best score is 528, using a 20 years old Gamo Center, my first air pistol purchased for $150 on Craigslist in late November, 2010. It's got a nasty spiralling spring recoil and as such is VERY hold sensitive. I have recently discovered that a tight pinky finger grip with fingers above progressively less tight enable reasonably consistent groups, with about 1.5cm centre-to-centre potential. In a vise it shoots wild, with approximately 4cm groups at 10m, due to lack of absorption by the hand of this spring action.

So I well understand how a 500+ score is possible, since I have now shot 5 sets with 500+ scores with this sort of 'sporting' or 'circus' pistol. I understood very early on that the Gamo would limit my potential... but with enough understanding of the gun's behavior, it seems probable that I will be able to reach about 560 with this gun, as some of my 10 shot groups are scoring 93 or 94 points. All I need to do is persist in learning, experimenting to find which combination of techniques works better for me and this pistol, and I will get there. My goal is to achieve this level by the end of summer.

Since there is no retail availability of the IZH-46m in Canada at the moment and it seems unlikely any shop will have one for a few months, I am contenting myself with my Gamo. I have rebuilt it with the best gun grease and made a grip which fits my hand very well. While I had no intentions of becoming a 10m air pistol target shooter when I bought it (we have a lot of squirrels here, and they ruin my garden), it seems I have drifted into a new hobby, one I very much enjoy (unlike hunting - haven't yet been able to bring myself to shoot a squirrel). If I could afford a FWB103 I would buy one. I cannot, so will settle for the 46m when it becomes available.

This is personal stuff, not anything I am recommending to any other shooter. I am only saying that there is nothing inherently 'wrong' with our fellow forum member shooting as good scores as he can shoot using an IZH-53. One uses the 'shovel' one has in hand. A belligerent attitude towards such efforts is not commendable behavior Ruslan, it is pathetic and abusive. Is a coach not supposed to encourage good improvements in skill, no matter what hardware the shooter can afford? Was this not your initial point, that the exact quality of the gun was not the point? Seems to me that with your circus clown comments you are contradicting yourself rather badly.

Can someone please help direct this gentlemen Gerard to the source in Canada where he can purchase IZH-46M? More importantly, where can he receive the right knowledge about grip control?

Do not try to make me cry. One trip to participate in a competition will cost you at least $500 or more. Before you challenge your pocket, please learn the fundamentals my friend!
Is anyone else think those avatars somehow close to discuss Olympic pistol?

Gerard wrote:If I could afford a FWB103 I would buy one.

Then buy a used FWB 65.
And stop your peculiar mix of braggadocio and whining.

Alexander

Russ wrote:Do not try to make me cry. One trip to participate in a competition will cost you at least $500 or more. Before you challenge your pocket, please learn the fundamentals my friend!
Is anyone else think those avatars somehow close to discuss Olympic pistol?

Crying: No effort being made here on that front 'friend.' I was simply offering another point of comparison, referencing your insulting comments to the user of the break-barrel Baikal pistol. You were rude, when his performance with an obviously inferior pistol is actually quite respectable.

$500? There are at least two competitions in Richmond every year, about an hour's trip by bus (costing $3.50 each way) from my house. These are BC Championship class events, which draw a number of international competitors and acclaim from the ISSF representatives who have found the level of competence among event organizers to be world class. Even a trip to Alberta wouldn't cost more than $300, including hotel room. Or do you suggest that flying in a jet is essential for good marksmanship?

Fundamentals: I am learning these wonderful fundamentals, thanks to the many excellent coaches from Ukraine, Russia, Germany, the US, and elsewhere who have seen fit to share their knowledge in articles and books online. So many things can be learned by reading. I became a violinmaker based on reading books from the library. No apprenticeships were available for me here. My very large client list now includes many of the finest professional musicians, as well as many more students of various levels, and they all receive my best work along with much free 'coaching' as to maintenance and proper treatment of their instruments. My education was 'free' and the value gained is limitless. Money has very little to do with learning, provided the student's mind is good and the motivation is great. I have improved my best scores by almost 200 points in 3 months. The next 30 or 40 points will be more challenging, but so what? I learn quickly.

As for this 'avatar' thing you keep raising... it serves only to confuse me, unfortunately. I might like to know what you mean by this, if you could explain it. I don't really care whether or not it's in easily apprehended English, only that it be made sensible. Are you able to explain your intention with this comment, now made several times in this discussion? By 'avatar' do you perhaps mean 'forum member?' I have chosen not to use an avatar in this forum, don't really care whether or not a picture accompanies my name.

Recently it has become clear to me that I am advancing at a rate which should place me in a position for serious competition within one year of starting to shoot. While I may fail in this, it is my intention to dedicate some of my day to achieving this goal. I am hoping to score consistently at the 570 level as a minimum by that time.

As for the 'someone help him get a 46m' comment... I am on the waiting list with two reputable suppliers, both in BC, and will get notification from them when the sole supplier of Baikal pistols for North America gets new stock available. I have also posted a WTB listing this past week on the Canadian Airgun Forum, for the Baikal or for some other SSP type pistol of similar or slightly higher price. There is one FWB65 available, but the age of this model bothers me along with its relative mechanical complexity. I would prefer to perform my own maintenance, as I have with the Gamo, as I do with my computers, and with anything else needing mechanical servicing in my possession since early childhood. I fix things and do it very well. I could probably learn to keep a FWB65 in good shape. But the pistol doesn't interest me very much compared to the spring-less models even with the 'recoilless' design.

And this insulting last comment on the nature of what I have written... take from it what you will. Sure, I'm quite proud of having advanced as far as I have in a few months, what's wrong with that? And doing so with a pistol which whips around rather oddly when held the wrong way (or rather, held as one might grip a modern Olympic class pistol, which is inappropriate for this pistol) has offered an especial challenge, one I have risen to meet. What's the problem here?

This is really getting ridiculous. I should unsubscribe from this thread, it's like watching a dog chase its tail. I have heard from a couple of sources that Ruslan is actually quite competent as a coach, and that's great. His personal style leaves much to be desired, and his approach to internet forum participation borders on the bizarre, but whatever, it's his thread. I'll not bother to comment in it further. Should anyone wish to insult me or otherwise communicate, the PM button is right there.

I have no idea why you choose my thread initially?
Who is asking you in first post to make comments about my personality? (Check your initial post #19) You don’t know me, I don’t know you. Try to be nice! Good Bye!
There is also good business opportunity to someone to import inexpensive AP to Canada. ;)
It was a very informative essay. Thank you!

Of course no one asked me, specifically, to post here in the thread you initiated. I spoke up because it seemed there was a lot of confusion around your motivation for this thread, and because you seemed intent on attacking various people for often mysterious reasons. It seemed a rational thing to do, to try and find some sort of clarity. Guess the result is the opposite, the waters are muddier than ever. Farewell.

Confusion this is correct. You came in the wrong door. I can’t teach you how to score 520, because this is not my level of expertise.
You are not even able to dream about 580. What I’m trying to offer. If you came to learn , at least try to use your eyes and ears.

Wow, that's rich. Shoot a 580 once or twice in your life and that is the level you can teach? Can't teach a guy how to work his way up from the 520's, that's some business model. It's hard to miss a guy when he just won't go away. Funny how one guy can turn off so many people who are just looking for some simple help. Gerard keep at it at your own pace if needed, I know getting some equipment can be tough, just work with what you have and keep a positive attitude. Positive is the key, ignore the man behind the curtain.

My dear friend Greg Derr, for the competitive score of 580 you have to perform practice score around 590 very often and I do not trying even implement it.
Positive attitude and hard work toward to open a padlock is a wonderful thing, no questions about but sometimes it is nice to have a key combination.
Is it not informative to you also?

No one needs to explain to Greg the particulars of shooting 580+ in AP or 560+ in FP...been there, done that bunches of times.

Hey Buddy!

Regards from you know who. Talk to you soon.

Gerard wrote:Of course no one asked me, specifically, to post here in the thread you initiated. I spoke up because it seemed there was a lot of confusion around your motivation for this thread, and because you seemed intent on attacking various people for often mysterious reasons. It seemed a rational thing to do, to try and find some sort of clarity. Guess the result is the opposite, the waters are muddier than ever. Farewell.

Gerard, you said in one of your previous messages that one of your parents is of Croatian ori-gin. If you still master Croatian I think the word that describes Russ attitude would be "šupak," and you do not argue with those. They will bring you down to their level and destroy you with sheer experience.

Antispar,
I have just returned from a trip into Dallas, TX where my wife and I were able to eat a nice dinner with our daughter who flew into town for business meetings tomorrow. She lived and worked in the beautiful city of Sisak, Croatia for a little over two years. She used the very same word you mentioned tonight. She explained that it does have a couple of meanings besides the literal one. It just struck me funny to have just heard it used two hours ago and then to see it here in TT.

Come see us in the woods.
Jack

antispar wrote: Gerard, you said in one of your previous messages that one of your parents is of Croatian ori-gin. If you still master Croatian I think the word that describes Russ attitude would be "šupak," and you do not argue with those. They will bring you down to their level and destroy you with sheer experience.

Unfortunately for my brothers and sister, our father never spoke his native tongue at home, nor anywhere he lived and worked. It seemed as though in leaving Dalmatia he wanted to leave everything behind. The war left him tormented with many bitter, horrifying memories, things no small child should have to see, so I understand. But it might have been nice to be able communicate more easily with my many relatives there, such as the cousin who lives in the house I inherited and will of course never claim. Some day I will bring my family there for a visit, as they've been pestering me to do for years.

I took a guess at what a šupak might be... then looked it up with Google's translation service. Yup, I guessed right. And while we're not supposed to use swearwords in forums, it seems a pretty accurate description. And I should know better by now in both how to spot one before wasting my breath, and when to step away and get busy with something more fruitful.

That is a rather fun coincidence! I love little things like that, which seem to point to a hidden pattern behind the ordinary. Good for a laugh anyway.

[quote]Jack Milchanowski"]Antispar,
I have just returned from a trip into Dallas, TX where my wife and I were able to eat a nice dinner with our daughter who flew into town for business meetings tomorrow. She lived and worked in the beautiful city of Sisak, Croatia for a little over two years. She used the very same word you mentioned tonight. She explained that it does have a couple of meanings besides the literal one. It just struck me funny to have just heard it used two hours ago and then to see it here in TT.

Come see us in the woods.
Jack[/quote]

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... ght=#92823

Yes it is nice story, Jack! I have no wonder why are you doing this! Poor Gerard story is very touching.
It is [b]only a few very suspicious details: [/b] (all contributed 21 posts by such entity as Gerard with his special attention only to my topic). Why? The same story about antispar (four posts total).
Are you guys OK?

New Word for your Dictionary!
[b]Thimble rigger [/b]A fraud or deception perpetrated by shifting conspicuous things to hide something else.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... e%20rigger

Simpler or "older" guns can indeed be very useful as entry-level starters and may have high educational value, as antispar noted. That is why in my field (.22 pistol), guns like the Hämmerli International/208/215 or the Walther GSP are still popular club guns and beginner guns, though they are no longer "state of the art" here, and can be used successfully up to national level.

For an even more basic level than these two, Ruslan of all people will certainly be the first to underline, from his former USSR cadre athlete perspective, how and especially why a simple but very accurate tool like the Margolin could be an excellent starter gun even today. I also would rather start a newbie on a Margolin than on a Walther SSP or an MG-2. But he has also lined out and substantiated why this does *not* hold true for an air pistol like the IZH-53, and why both cases are not comparable.

Alexander

Alexander, this is not about target shooting at all!