"The best available…"
This is good question for TT. Why are you asking me? Do your homework.
What kind of credentials are you looking? Based on your initial statement my credentials was carefully inspected by you.
You can specify your goal, level of performance…. If you like to do it in public I don’t mind.
P.S. I may not be the best available option for you, your writing style is too conservative for me. :) Please consider other alternatives.
"You Can't Step in the Same River Twice."
Zen
You are big fan of quotes, apparently me too. It was real pleasure for me to know you.
Buy the way thank you for the support Greg Derr.
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To be fair to Russ on this last point, regarding his qualifications... I'm not sure what qualifications or credentials he may have as a coach, but early in this thread he did post a link to a site showing some of his illustrious shooting results in competition and also a string of half a dozen or so testimonials from ex- and current students. For what it's worth.
From all I've read of his comments it seems his struggles with colloquial English are a very serious stumbling block in this forum. I've run into similar difficulties only a couple of times before, not in forums but in 'real life.' It seems to me in this case as with those that a combination of a difficult personality combined with linguistic/usage difficulties make for near-impossibility of communication. Probably better just to walk away.
From all I've read of his comments it seems his struggles with colloquial English are a very serious stumbling block in this forum. I've run into similar difficulties only a couple of times before, not in forums but in 'real life.' It seems to me in this case as with those that a combination of a difficult personality combined with linguistic/usage difficulties make for near-impossibility of communication. Probably better just to walk away.
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David Levene
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This actually raises another important point.Russ wrote:P.S. I may not be the best available option for you....
It doesn't matter how much success a coach has had with other shooters, he/she might not be the right coach for you. At the same time, you might not be the right shooter for the coach.
It's a two-way working relationship with each having their own job to do. That relationship does not always have to be harmonious, each will have its own format.
Just as in shooting in general, there's no "one-size-fits-all".
Yes David, the psychological coherence between coach and athletes is an extremely important part in the future progress of development. This is the way how coachs gain necessary hidden information in some athletes concerns.
But this is not a case of why I wrote it. But yes, it is a good point to accent on. I’m glad my English is not a big issue for you. :)
But this is not a case of why I wrote it. But yes, it is a good point to accent on. I’m glad my English is not a big issue for you. :)
Last edited by Russ on Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I would like to point the attention toward one important point. Very often my statements cannot be understood correctly. I would like to explain why this happened in most cases. I came from system were competitive Olympic style target shooting was only one available option. At that time, if you would have liked to learn something about it, you could have joined a club only at the ages of 13-15. I was introduced to this sport at the age of 13 and started practicing. Fun was not is option there. I cannot say anything about a hard time or anything else… Yes, score performance was the single goal to reach.
But as teenagers, we had fun too. Our fun was to have relations with people who shared the same values as us… To deliver the best score possible…
This is how the magic was born.
In 1978 when I started, there was no sufficient information written in my language about such subjects as target shooting. Even Uriev’s book was an extremely valuable thing. Not too many coaches were able to read it. Today we experience other difficulties… Too much information is around… This is why the direction of an experienced coach can make a difference in the performance of future athletes.
But as teenagers, we had fun too. Our fun was to have relations with people who shared the same values as us… To deliver the best score possible…
This is how the magic was born.
In 1978 when I started, there was no sufficient information written in my language about such subjects as target shooting. Even Uriev’s book was an extremely valuable thing. Not too many coaches were able to read it. Today we experience other difficulties… Too much information is around… This is why the direction of an experienced coach can make a difference in the performance of future athletes.
Last edited by Russ on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
In controversy to my experience, many people who were introduced to ISSF shooting from shooting club systems had a variety of different pistols, styles, calibers, models, and etc... I assume curiosity of the unusual looking guns that brought the attention to the people who were practicing with those strange pistols. Then what, purchase is not a problem here. In the comfort of a cozy office chair, the order was made and the pistol arrived in 3-4 days to your FFL dealer. You are in possession of highly expensive piece of equipment. Probably, your expectations of improving scores can be related to the amount of money invested in this thing. Are you with me? This is not an issue here……
There is no expected progress achieved yet. What to do next?
Let’s do search on internet. Finally, I got it! TT will be the answer to my entire line of questions! I’m start reading it…. “Subconscious performance”, “Holy Grail of competitive shooting”… Sound intriguing…People sound smart, knowledgeable, and highly educated… This is the place where I should belong and more importantly, the promise of it being FREE.
I don’t want to compromise any value of free TT, and any efforts of help; everything is great.
But without a few elements, this system will not produce an expected output.
Let us show how to overcome this issue. Otherwise you will be pointed in one direction: BUY NEW NICE $2,000.00 pistol!
First issue: Initial athletes Desire to achieve certain scores of performance. (Not a fun club attitude)
Second: Access to real hidden problems of particular athletes. (No one is willing to publicly undress themselves to share information to us if he does not have related psychological problems)
Third: How to choose from one out of 10 advices which can be relevant to the real issue? What isn't?
Sorry for my English. I’m doing it for the reason to explain another important point. We have similar difficulties. I did not learn my English in a structured and systematized way, and the result is obvious. Many of you have the same difficulties in basic knowledge of pistol fundamentals (NRA The basics of pistol shooting Class and the book will be provided in any US State for the small amount of a $150 fee) and are forced to learn unrelated knowledge toward your case of information. This is why your score is low as my English. It will take time and self-discipline to relearn this process again. I have access to a public educational system. One class at OCC will cost me $300 plus books. I have a solution to resolve my problems. I hope you will find your own way too. Best wishes to you all!
I hope I will see you as a victorious achiever.
There is no expected progress achieved yet. What to do next?
Let’s do search on internet. Finally, I got it! TT will be the answer to my entire line of questions! I’m start reading it…. “Subconscious performance”, “Holy Grail of competitive shooting”… Sound intriguing…People sound smart, knowledgeable, and highly educated… This is the place where I should belong and more importantly, the promise of it being FREE.
I don’t want to compromise any value of free TT, and any efforts of help; everything is great.
But without a few elements, this system will not produce an expected output.
Let us show how to overcome this issue. Otherwise you will be pointed in one direction: BUY NEW NICE $2,000.00 pistol!
First issue: Initial athletes Desire to achieve certain scores of performance. (Not a fun club attitude)
Second: Access to real hidden problems of particular athletes. (No one is willing to publicly undress themselves to share information to us if he does not have related psychological problems)
Third: How to choose from one out of 10 advices which can be relevant to the real issue? What isn't?
Sorry for my English. I’m doing it for the reason to explain another important point. We have similar difficulties. I did not learn my English in a structured and systematized way, and the result is obvious. Many of you have the same difficulties in basic knowledge of pistol fundamentals (NRA The basics of pistol shooting Class and the book will be provided in any US State for the small amount of a $150 fee) and are forced to learn unrelated knowledge toward your case of information. This is why your score is low as my English. It will take time and self-discipline to relearn this process again. I have access to a public educational system. One class at OCC will cost me $300 plus books. I have a solution to resolve my problems. I hope you will find your own way too. Best wishes to you all!
I hope I will see you as a victorious achiever.
Russ I am remodeling my guest room this summer, but next summer there will be room enough for 3.
I believe the point you were trying to make in this super long topic is that coaching is extremely valueable in reaching high scores in the shortest amount of time. This should be something people are willing to pay for. In the USA at least, many seem very willing to pay thousands for equipment but are reluctant to put money into coaching. This probably explains why coaches are so few and far between as they must make a living like anyone else. If people were willing to pay a reasonable amount for coaching there would be more coaches in more places. I know in Alaska it is very difficult to find a coach for Air Pistol, Bullseye, Sport or Rapid Fire pistol. We have world class Air Rifle and Small Bore Rifle coaches at the UAF (University of Alaska, Fairbanks) but pistol is tough to get started in the right direction.
A good shooter will do much better with a fair pistol than will a fair shooter with a great pistol.
Take care and wishing all the best this year!
I believe the point you were trying to make in this super long topic is that coaching is extremely valueable in reaching high scores in the shortest amount of time. This should be something people are willing to pay for. In the USA at least, many seem very willing to pay thousands for equipment but are reluctant to put money into coaching. This probably explains why coaches are so few and far between as they must make a living like anyone else. If people were willing to pay a reasonable amount for coaching there would be more coaches in more places. I know in Alaska it is very difficult to find a coach for Air Pistol, Bullseye, Sport or Rapid Fire pistol. We have world class Air Rifle and Small Bore Rifle coaches at the UAF (University of Alaska, Fairbanks) but pistol is tough to get started in the right direction.
A good shooter will do much better with a fair pistol than will a fair shooter with a great pistol.
Take care and wishing all the best this year!
This can be a very good question Chris.
This can be a very good question Chris. Quote:
" I have been working on this for years and I still do not have it perfected. "
You can get help and answers from carefully revising all of the elements of your current performance. 1) Your goal. 2) Your current score performance 3) Your experience and time of practicing 4) How is you practicing. 5) What is your knowledge in fundamentals and etc...
Based on those elements of your performance, if you analyze them and reconnect them in the correct structure, Your coach can help you build a more stronger model of perfect shot performance. When you will feel more confident and successful in delivering more “10", you may expect your subconscious mind to start helping you only from this point. Without connecting all of the elements of your structure while adjusting them with right knowledge, you will not produce an effective outcome too soon.
You cannot force your subconscious mind to provide help for your performance if your score is less than AP 570-575. Most likely, you will abuse this process. On other hand, if you become consciously aware of the complete model of how to deliver a constant score at AP 570-575 level, you may start to experience interesting things in your performance, such as: calling your shot as “9” but receiving a “10” instead. Yes, 560 in AP can be delivered by the conscious execution of the perfect model of fundamentals and it is your choice to engage yourself and your time by NOT discussing technical advantages of one model of your tool (hammer or pistol; this is not the matter) over another. For example, what kind of shoes do you need. I saw a picture of Mikhail Nestruev performing a winning score in an international event while wearing dress shoes. Your attention goes where your intention is. If you are a recreational shooter and your objective is to have fun, this can help you validate only the next purchase of shooting shoes. If your efforts are directed by score performance, you may choose other alternatives (increasing the time of dry fire) than the justification of doing (purchasing) something towards your unclear goal.
" I have been working on this for years and I still do not have it perfected. "
You can get help and answers from carefully revising all of the elements of your current performance. 1) Your goal. 2) Your current score performance 3) Your experience and time of practicing 4) How is you practicing. 5) What is your knowledge in fundamentals and etc...
Based on those elements of your performance, if you analyze them and reconnect them in the correct structure, Your coach can help you build a more stronger model of perfect shot performance. When you will feel more confident and successful in delivering more “10", you may expect your subconscious mind to start helping you only from this point. Without connecting all of the elements of your structure while adjusting them with right knowledge, you will not produce an effective outcome too soon.
You cannot force your subconscious mind to provide help for your performance if your score is less than AP 570-575. Most likely, you will abuse this process. On other hand, if you become consciously aware of the complete model of how to deliver a constant score at AP 570-575 level, you may start to experience interesting things in your performance, such as: calling your shot as “9” but receiving a “10” instead. Yes, 560 in AP can be delivered by the conscious execution of the perfect model of fundamentals and it is your choice to engage yourself and your time by NOT discussing technical advantages of one model of your tool (hammer or pistol; this is not the matter) over another. For example, what kind of shoes do you need. I saw a picture of Mikhail Nestruev performing a winning score in an international event while wearing dress shoes. Your attention goes where your intention is. If you are a recreational shooter and your objective is to have fun, this can help you validate only the next purchase of shooting shoes. If your efforts are directed by score performance, you may choose other alternatives (increasing the time of dry fire) than the justification of doing (purchasing) something towards your unclear goal.
AK Pistol wrote:Russ I am remodeling my guest room this summer, but next summer there will be room enough for 3.
I believe the point you were trying to make in this super long topic is that coaching is extremely valueable in reaching high scores in the shortest amount of time. This should be something people are willing to pay for. In the USA at least, many seem very willing to pay thousands for equipment but are reluctant to put money into coaching. This probably explains why coaches are so few and far between as they must make a living like anyone else. If people were willing to pay a reasonable amount for coaching there would be more coaches in more places. I know in Alaska it is very difficult to find a coach for Air Pistol, Bullseye, Sport or Rapid Fire pistol. We have world class Air Rifle and Small Bore Rifle coaches at the UAF (University of Alaska, Fairbanks) but pistol is tough to get started in the right direction.
A good shooter will do much better with a fair pistol than will a fair shooter with a great pistol.
Take care and wishing all the best this year!
I would like to correct your statement about a good shooter and a knowledgeable athlete.
Knowledgeable means to be driven by knowledge, not by the next purchasing idea.
Athlete vs. Shooter.
Athletes are driven by goals and by excelling in their own score performance. Shooters, who I refer to as Recreational shooters are driven by consuming ideas to have fun and buy unnecessary products. There is nothing wrong with consuming stuff… Please do not create a logical bridge to automatically justify a different category of an athlete.
In the USA, we still have a great opportunity to excel in ISSF shooting if we start moving forward in knowledge and by bringing more real professionals to the sport. Professionals who not only show advance speech and writing performance skills, but real knowledge and achievements in a particular field of Olympic Style target shooting.
I used an AP - Benelli Kite and a FP TOZ-35M in the 2007 National USAS, which was not expensive. Here are some references:
http://midwestshootingacademy.com/events.shtml
Last edited by Russ on Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Two months ago was about to upgrade from my faithful Izh-53 (paid € 25 second-hand) with which I had been hovering at about 500 point to something better without spending a big buck on a new pistol. The logical choice was to look again for second-hand pistol or cheap new one. German/Austrian web page www.egun.de was of little help as the prices for used APs were extremely high, at least for my understating of used goods. I contacted Izhmash distributor for the EU and Balkans and their quote price for Izh-46M was € 400 including shipping, which seemed fine, even than import duties would add some 15% on top of it.
At that point guys from the local range offered me to try old club workhorse FWB C-20 with which my score raised immediately to 535. They all shoot nice Walthers, Benellis, Steyrs, etc. and after getting to know my intention to upgrade the “shovel,” as they call my Izh-53, they started convincing me to buy best affordable equipment. Offered rationale was that only with best equipment I can see where “I am” in comparison with top shooters who use similar pistols. Any lower quality equipment would downgrade my will to improve and learn as I would probably put part of the blame for bad or lower then expected scores on the pistol.
They pointed at fact that buying directly from the company is cheaper then from a store. I had contacted Steyr and the manufacturer price for LP-10 was € 1,086 including the Austrian VAT, which proved what they said as the same pistol costs some € 200 more in sport stores.
Finally, I came across this tread…. where there is advocated opinion that those who do not shot well (above 550, if I remember it correctly) should not even consider top of the line air pistols. I read through all seven pages of the tread (gruelling!!) and Russ’s rationale really does not come right for me. In his opinion only those who can drive Nurburgring’s Nordschleife in less then 8.5 minutes should buy Porsche 911 or something similar, because they have been committed enough to ‘high spirit’ of auto sport. The whole universe of everyday’s driving pleasure was neglected.
This comparison describes well my opinion about buying top of the line equipment despite the fact that a person is far from being able to use its full potentials. Without those resourceful amateurs many sport equipment producers would not be able to continue improvement (or R&D) of their products or to produce them altogether. The best proof for this statement comes from the country where ‘high sport spirit’ was a piedmont, Russia. Its sport equipment producers were and are nowhere because of small series and elitist approach. The best Izhmash AP is all steel copy of 25+ years old FBW 100, which is sold second-handed with 30,000 pellets through them for € 350. All those ‘high Olympic spirit’ shooters from Russia, including Russ, use pistols developed for elite shooter but bought by anyone who wants them and can afford them.
Those elite shooters, however, can and should have satisfaction when it comes to quality of pistols. It is fact that event with not top of the line pistols (older designs i.e. FWB 65, Walther LP-2, etc.) they can outshoot all of us amateurs. Which is just fine and I’m sure even more pleasuring for them when they look at us and think that they could beat us with cruder pistol.
To conclude, I will probably go for Steyr LP-10 knowing in advance that I will never reach 575+ level, and I don’t care about it. I only hope I will have fun shooting it as much as I had shooting my good old “shovel.”
At that point guys from the local range offered me to try old club workhorse FWB C-20 with which my score raised immediately to 535. They all shoot nice Walthers, Benellis, Steyrs, etc. and after getting to know my intention to upgrade the “shovel,” as they call my Izh-53, they started convincing me to buy best affordable equipment. Offered rationale was that only with best equipment I can see where “I am” in comparison with top shooters who use similar pistols. Any lower quality equipment would downgrade my will to improve and learn as I would probably put part of the blame for bad or lower then expected scores on the pistol.
They pointed at fact that buying directly from the company is cheaper then from a store. I had contacted Steyr and the manufacturer price for LP-10 was € 1,086 including the Austrian VAT, which proved what they said as the same pistol costs some € 200 more in sport stores.
Finally, I came across this tread…. where there is advocated opinion that those who do not shot well (above 550, if I remember it correctly) should not even consider top of the line air pistols. I read through all seven pages of the tread (gruelling!!) and Russ’s rationale really does not come right for me. In his opinion only those who can drive Nurburgring’s Nordschleife in less then 8.5 minutes should buy Porsche 911 or something similar, because they have been committed enough to ‘high spirit’ of auto sport. The whole universe of everyday’s driving pleasure was neglected.
This comparison describes well my opinion about buying top of the line equipment despite the fact that a person is far from being able to use its full potentials. Without those resourceful amateurs many sport equipment producers would not be able to continue improvement (or R&D) of their products or to produce them altogether. The best proof for this statement comes from the country where ‘high sport spirit’ was a piedmont, Russia. Its sport equipment producers were and are nowhere because of small series and elitist approach. The best Izhmash AP is all steel copy of 25+ years old FBW 100, which is sold second-handed with 30,000 pellets through them for € 350. All those ‘high Olympic spirit’ shooters from Russia, including Russ, use pistols developed for elite shooter but bought by anyone who wants them and can afford them.
Those elite shooters, however, can and should have satisfaction when it comes to quality of pistols. It is fact that event with not top of the line pistols (older designs i.e. FWB 65, Walther LP-2, etc.) they can outshoot all of us amateurs. Which is just fine and I’m sure even more pleasuring for them when they look at us and think that they could beat us with cruder pistol.
To conclude, I will probably go for Steyr LP-10 knowing in advance that I will never reach 575+ level, and I don’t care about it. I only hope I will have fun shooting it as much as I had shooting my good old “shovel.”
I think the actual context is that don't buy a top of the line pistol because you think it will give you elite level scores. Same goes for just about every piece equipment.
Buy a pistol that you like, feels good in your hand and that you can afford. The only thing that will increase your score is training. There are two ways to that too, the most likely long hard way is to learn on your own. The second way is to get a coach. In a coach you want someone you can communicate with and who can communicate with you, is knowledgable form training and experience. The coach may be a former great shooter he may not. Personally I'd prefer to get a coach that has worked with and produced good shooters that is more telling than the fact that they themselves were a good shooter.
As for Russ, I've met him, he's a genuine guy, and really seems to care about producing good shooters. He himself was/is a good shooter and I've also met some of the very good shooters that have worked with him as coach.
So there is nothing wrong with getting a good pistol to start out with it won't slow down your progress or make you a poor shooter, but neither will it make you a good shooter.
Buy a pistol that you like, feels good in your hand and that you can afford. The only thing that will increase your score is training. There are two ways to that too, the most likely long hard way is to learn on your own. The second way is to get a coach. In a coach you want someone you can communicate with and who can communicate with you, is knowledgable form training and experience. The coach may be a former great shooter he may not. Personally I'd prefer to get a coach that has worked with and produced good shooters that is more telling than the fact that they themselves were a good shooter.
As for Russ, I've met him, he's a genuine guy, and really seems to care about producing good shooters. He himself was/is a good shooter and I've also met some of the very good shooters that have worked with him as coach.
So there is nothing wrong with getting a good pistol to start out with it won't slow down your progress or make you a poor shooter, but neither will it make you a good shooter.
Last edited by Richard H on Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
This post is complete joke :)
“faithful Izh-53” :)))
Since Izh -53.never was associated with ISSF or Olympic style shooting, this post is complete joke.:)
In Russia this pistol used only by circus and amusement attractions for public to help them waste money and shoot at 5 meter distance.
I don’t know where those people coming from. This is not even recreational target shooting level.
Since Izh -53.never was associated with ISSF or Olympic style shooting, this post is complete joke.:)
In Russia this pistol used only by circus and amusement attractions for public to help them waste money and shoot at 5 meter distance.
I don’t know where those people coming from. This is not even recreational target shooting level.
Last edited by Russ on Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Russ, I have mostly not understood your meaning due to the language issues and, perhaps, my lack of exposure to the lingo of high-level coaching. But I think you owe somebody an apology. To get scores of 500 with a boat anchor like an Izh-53 is an accomplishment, and he should be encouraged not mocked.
Maybe he'll never extract full "value" from the Euros spent on a Steyr (and it's a damned lot of Euros), but he will overnight come to know that he will never be equipment limited. When I bought my AP I did it thinking that it will be the last AP I ever own and it will take me exactly as far as I am prepared to let it. If the poster feels that way about his Steyr, more power to him.
As to your methods, I really can only admit to (predictable?) incomprehension. As to Mr. Derr's comments, I can only wonder what emotional button is being pushed to prompt such nasty response.
Maybe he'll never extract full "value" from the Euros spent on a Steyr (and it's a damned lot of Euros), but he will overnight come to know that he will never be equipment limited. When I bought my AP I did it thinking that it will be the last AP I ever own and it will take me exactly as far as I am prepared to let it. If the poster feels that way about his Steyr, more power to him.
As to your methods, I really can only admit to (predictable?) incomprehension. As to Mr. Derr's comments, I can only wonder what emotional button is being pushed to prompt such nasty response.
The concept that one (coaching services) should come before another (decent equipment) is totally wrong.
You need both.
As many before me stated, a good coach is a person that has the skills to train shooters and is able to use these skills effectively.
The coach capabilities as shooter are not relevant at all (nor its credentials as a shooter).
I also believe there is a great different between a club level coach and a coach that is aiming to produce international level shooters. It is a different ball game to setup and execute a yearly training plan that involves 4-7 weekly training sessions with milestones and competions check points vs conducting a weekly training sessions which primarly focuses on improving technical skills.
You need both.
As many before me stated, a good coach is a person that has the skills to train shooters and is able to use these skills effectively.
The coach capabilities as shooter are not relevant at all (nor its credentials as a shooter).
I also believe there is a great different between a club level coach and a coach that is aiming to produce international level shooters. It is a different ball game to setup and execute a yearly training plan that involves 4-7 weekly training sessions with milestones and competions check points vs conducting a weekly training sessions which primarly focuses on improving technical skills.
It is surprising to me that IZH-53 can hit the target at 10 meters!william wrote:Russ, I have mostly not understood your meaning due to the language issues and, perhaps, my lack of exposure to the lingo of high-level coaching. But I think you owe somebody an apology. To get scores of 500 with a boat anchor like an Izh-53 is an accomplishment, and he should be encouraged not mocked.
Maybe he'll never extract full "value" from the Euros spent on a Steyr (and it's a damned lot of Euros), but he will overnight come to know that he will never be equipment limited. When I bought my AP I did it thinking that it will be the last AP I ever own and it will take me exactly as far as I am prepared to let it. If the poster feels that way about his Steyr, more power to him.
As to your methods, I really can only admit to (predictable?) incomprehension. As to Mr. Derr's comments, I can only wonder what emotional button is being pushed to prompt such nasty response.
Is it necessary to apologize for such creativity?
The reason for such activities is to be part of the Guinness Book of World Records, not competition. If someone was able to sell this thing as a competitive device to someone who bought it as he was told to do so… Something is wrong with this buying-selling process.
Please accept my apology for my English grammar. I signed into the class already.
Last edited by Russ on Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.