TargetTalk

SPP,
Try seating your pellets in the "chamber". I worked for me and I have not had the problem happen since the 5th shot. (2 tins ago)

I like the pistol, I'm not an Olympic shooter like the rest of you, but I can call my shots with it.

I knew what I was getting at that price point.

Long time follower, First time poster. I have had a 6004 since they were first available.
There are 6 of these in my area, bought by fellow shooters on my recommendation.
Mine "misfired" a few times at the beginning and all was well until the other 5 started having
problems to varying degrees. I will make this as short as possible. I fixed 3, the others are
using which ever pellets are most reliable. After spending 30 hours on the first pistol trying
to figure out what is going on it seems that the problem is the chamber or lack of one.
If you removed a pellet that has "misfired" you will see the sharp edges of the rifling engraved
in the skirt but they are not to the edge of the skirt. I used a small tapered dremel stone in a
drill (low speed-light pressure!!!) to just take the sharp edges off the lands only! They will
shoot any pellet after this modification.A pellet setter will also work but once done this is easier.
Chiappa service is not so good 2 guys went that route with negative results. When you take the barrel out (remove the 2 screws at the chamber end and the clamp) make sure you put it back
in the exact same place. If replaced too far back toward the breech the top will be hard to open,
pry it open with a screwdriver. If replaced too far away from the breech it will leak past the seal
when fired and sound underpowered. This really is a good pistol and I plan on shooting it on
Saturday at the PA state match because my LP400 just broke. Hoping to make Rover proud.
Thanks Bob L.

Shooterer wrote:SPP, try seating your pellets in the "chamber". I worked for me and I have not had the problem happen since the 5th shot. (2 tins ago)
I knew what I was getting at that price point.

Thank you for the tip. You have offered one of the first helpful comments in this thread. ;-)
I have tried this and I believe you are right. This air pistol seems very sensitive to how the pellet is loaded in the chamber. I looked a some of the pellet seaters available for sale at Pyramid Air but the design of those requires them to be used in-line with the barrel axis. This will not work with the 6004 since it has a hooded breech. It seems that the pistol is more reliable when paying strict attention to the loading procedure.

I agree with you. When it works, it is well worth the money. The accuracy and ergonomics are very good.

B Lineaweaver wrote:There are 6 of these in my area, bought by fellow shooters on my recommendation.
Mine "misfired" a few times at the beginning and all was well until the other 5 started having
problems to varying degrees. I fixed 3. It seems that the problem is the chamber or lack of one.
If you removed a pellet that has "misfired" you will see the sharp edges of the rifling engraved
in the skirt but they are not to the edge of the skirt. I used a small tapered dremel stone in a
drill (low speed-light pressure!!!) to just take the sharp edges off the lands only! They will
shoot any pellet after this modification. A pellet setter will also work but once done this is easier.
Thanks Bob L.

Thanks Bob. This further confirms what I felt was a leakage problem (based on the sound) at the chamber that Shooterer's experience supported. The dremel tool option is not out of the question. I will further experiment with seating depths and when I feel comfortable with the mod, I will fire up the power tools.

To help you guys who need to chamfer the breech, here's how the 604 was cut. None of the 604's I've handled and owned had a blow-by problem. It pisses me off that Chiappa can't build the 6004 properly because it's a brilliantly designed pistol.

Hi all!

I'm a total newbie with 10m air pistols and have been looking for information on the FAS 6004. I just received mine last week and love it so far. I'm a lefty and settled on the Standard model because of the ambidextrous grips. I wonder if it's possible to upgrade the grip to Match, or if the two models are incompatible?

I came across this forum while searching for information on maintenance. I've come up empty finding information on how and where to grease and oil the gun. The manual kind of tells me, but it's vague at best for a newbie that's never owned a pneumatic.

The only info I could find was greasing a P17 which has a totally different piston design. I just ordered a P17 to mess with and have found tons of great posts and videos to help, so no problem there!

I've put about 200 shots through the 6004 so far but want to be able to keep it shooting smoothly. The manual says to grease the piston every 1000 shots. Am I supposed to grease the rod since the piston doesn't have any exposed parts like the P17? It also says to grease polymer surfaces. To be honest, I don't know what's polymer on the gun!

I've found it's very manageable to pump, considering I have a bum shoulder. I've dislocated my right shoulder 6 times over the years, including one surgery. Since I'm a lefty, I pump with my right hand and it's good physical therapy for me!

All in all I've been very pleased with the 6004 so far and love the way it shoots and feels. I just really need some advice on maintenance at this point and appreciate any help I can get.

I've been reading a lot of posts here and am learning a lot. I really love to watch the ISSF 10m pistol matches on YouTube, which made me want to get something without breaking the bank to start with. Being left handed limited my choices, but I really do love this pistol. If I keep practicing, I intend to start looking into a PCP down the road. I'm 56 years old, so my ambition to be an Olympic shooter isn't going to happen! :) It's a great relaxing time to shoot in the back yard and a good way to unwind. I love it.

I'm not new to shooting, I own a compound bow, blowgun, several CO2 air pistols, a Benjamin Trail NP pistol, and a couple of break barrel rifles, as well as my firearms. I'm the only one in my family that's interested in 10m air pistol, though my son is coming out soon to shoot with me and hopefully he'll be interested in it.

There are no airgun clubs near me. I live in the sticks on the East Coast in the US. I was hoping to find a club but so far I haven't found anything.

Sorry this ended up being a short story! I've been looking for a place I could learn from and this is the most informative forum I've found and I let loose on you all!

Thanks,
Ahura

To update and clarify my first post, I just downloaded the FAS 6004 user's manual and can see where it says to grease the piston rod. It says to use Napier brand oil and grease, which is not easy to find here. What other products would work just as well and easily accessible?

For cleaning the surface and sights it says to use a Teflon based lubricant oil or silicone. I'm guessing this is where they recommend Napier Power Airgun oil "for outer surfaces." What other products would work?

For the piston and polymer surfaces they recommend Napier 3034-A Airgun Grease. Once again, what other products would work?

Sorry for the newbie questions, I want to start off caring for the airgun properly without going overboard, which I understand can be just as bad as negligence.

Also I'm guessing the o-ring at the breech needs to be lubricated periodically?

Thanks,
Ahura

Ahura wrote:I just really need some advice on maintenance at this point and appreciate any help I can get.

One or two drops of pellgun oil in the air intake hole on top of the compression cylinder for every 500-1.000 shots. You can use Super Lube grease on the piston rod and the breech o-ring. Ballistol can be used to clean the bore, wipe down the exterior surface, and lubricate friction areas. Remember not to get overzealous on lubrication and don’t keep the pistol loaded (with air) for more than five minutes.

kevinweiho wrote:

Ahura wrote:I just really need some advice on maintenance at this point and appreciate any help I can get.

One or two drops of pellgun oil in the air intake hole on top of the compression cylinder for every 500-1.000 shots. You can use Super Lube grease on the piston rod and the breech o-ring. Ballistol can be used to clean the bore, wipe down the exterior surface, and lubricate friction areas. Remember not to get overzealous on lubrication and don’t keep the pistol loaded (with air) for more than five minutes.

I concur. That’s what I experienced with mine also. I would like to add that the cylinder needs to be maintained once in a while. After some experiments with different lubes mine became unreliable as well.
When I disassembled the cylinder for cleaning I was surprised that the seal was dry how much residue there was on the inside walls and on the piston head. The residue probably reduced the air flow to the barrel, while the dry seal was responsible for an air loss on the air intake side. The cure was a good clean and as mentioned above, a conservative lube of the piston and the seal with a product suited for the maintenance of pneumatic components. Not to be recommended are pure silicon jelly and pure petroleum jelly. They won’t damage neither pistol nor seal but won’t serve any other purpose either but clogging up the cylinder.

As I recommended above, use RWS Basic pellets for their weight, size and price. You could also use R10 Pistol if you'd like to spend more money.

If your chamber is tight, just stuff them in with the end of a BIC pen.

kevinweiho wrote: One or two drops of pellgun oil in the air intake hole on top of the compression cylinder for every 500-1.000 shots. You can use Super Lube grease on the piston rod and the breech o-ring. Ballistol can be used to clean the bore, wipe down the exterior surface, and lubricate friction areas. Remember not to get overzealous on lubrication and don’t keep the pistol loaded (with air) for more than five minutes.

Excellent! Thanks for the info, easily obtainable and highly rated products on Amazon.

OTD wrote: I concur. That’s what I experienced with mine also. I would like to add that the cylinder needs to be maintained once in a while. After some experiments with different lubes mine became unreliable as well.
When I disassembled the cylinder for cleaning I was surprised that the seal was dry how much residue there was on the inside walls and on the piston head. The residue probably reduced the air flow to the barrel, while the dry seal was responsible for an air loss on the air intake side. The cure was a good clean and as mentioned above, a conservative lube of the piston and the seal with a product suited for the maintenance of pneumatic components. Not to be recommended are pure silicon jelly and pure petroleum jelly. They won’t damage neither pistol nor seal but won’t serve any other purpose either but clogging up the cylinder.

How often would you recommend to disassemble the cylinder? I figured at some point I'd have to do that, though I'm not sure how to disassemble it as of yet. Fortunately, the 6004 is a very simple design so I'm sure after disassembling it a couple of times I'll feel comfortable doing so....that is as long as it still works when reassembled!!! Thanks for that info!!

Rover wrote:As I recommended above, use RWS Basic pellets for their weight, size and price. You could also use R10 Pistol if you'd like to spend more money.

If your chamber is tight, just stuff them in with the end of a BIC pen.

I was using some Crosman Competition that I had laying around and ordered some RWS Diabolo Basics. I haven't tried them yet, but I will this weekend. The price is definitely great on those. Once I get accustomed to the gun I do want to try the R10 and see if there's any difference. Thanks and also thanks for the BIC pen idea! Up until getting the 6004 I rarely used Wadcutters, since i was always looking for penetration and using more powerful airguns. I'm really having a blast shooting at targets now and want to get some official 10m targets soon to start keeping score for my own comparisons. I did order some NRA 10m targets to start with, but as I understand it, NRA scoring is different than ISSF, though I'm not sure about the difference in actual targets. The main thing I want to do is just keep a log to see if I'm improving. I have an app on my phone that will help me record my shots. I think it's called Shooter's Diary.

I appreciate the excellent and FAST response to my queries, I feel a little confidence starting to kick in already!

Ahura

The bull is printed on a larger, cheaper piece of paper with NRA targets. A low powered 6004 will not make clean holes on them. That is the only reason for the "import" target recommendations. Putting a new target over an old will help make the holes cleaner.

Maintenance:
I don’t have a recommendation for a preventive maintenance schedule. My experience is based on experiments I did for myself. I wanted to know how much grains of salt I have to add to the quality problems of the FAS 6004 and the general worries about this pistol. I therefor experimented with all possible and impossible recommendations to see what it would take to get reliability problems and the background of rear sight adjustment problems some people claim to have.

How much maintenance will be needed is probably a matter of how much the pistol was shot and how often and how much lube was applied previously. If correct lube was used and the recommendation of the owners manual is obeyed it’s probably once every other year or latest when the O ring had to be replaced. Now that I know, I would not spend any more effort on it, because every unnecessary disassembly of the cylinder is extra wear on the O ring and the plastic cap.

Target and Pellets:
The FAS 6004 is not offer a wide selection for pellets due to its low operating pressure. Vo in mine varies between 99.5m/s with 4.50mm/0.53g H&N FM rifle pellets which only rips the Krüger target and 112m/s with 4.49mm/0.46g RWS R10 pistol pellets which are printing better but still are not optimal for a precise target scoring. The low Vo of thick and heavy pellets might also be the cause for issues some people have with the rear sight. It’s elevation screw might be too short for compensating the very low impact of slow pellets.
I’m shooting a LP10 using esoterically chosen pellets as balsam for my inner balance, so I’m not really eager to find the best pellet for my FAS 6004. If it was not for Vo I would concur Rover’s advice, but given the performance in my FAS, it’s probably better to find a compromise, choose the lightest 4.49mm lead pellets available for getting clean holes on the target and ditch the idea of the most accurate combination.

Ok, thanks for all of the information! I got the NRA targets today and will mess around with them and order the imports next week. It's going to be awhile before I get good enough to for anything to make much of a difference. I'm looking around for info on stance, breathing, etc. now. The main thing for me is that I'm having fun!

I recently bought an FAS 6004 and I've been following this thread. There is some really helpful information, thanks all

I do have one question regarding the targets and scoring. I've tried everything to try and get some decent holes in the target which I can score. Evidently the air speed of the pellet is too slow?? I don't mind this during practice, but how would my targets be scored in competition? I'm assuming not all ranges have those electronic scoring targets? Anyone?

A lot depends on the quality of the targets. US made targets from National Target or American Target & the like won't produce clean holes even with high end pistols firing at much higher velocities. Targets from Cibles (Canada), Edelmann & Kruger (Europe) use shorter fibers & thicker paper, which tends to produce much cleaner holes.

NoNoBadDog wrote:but how would my targets be scored in competition? I'm assuming not all ranges have those electronic scoring targets? Anyone?

If the referee has any doubt about the value of a shot, he can use a score plug to clear those doubts. It centers on the shot hole and it has a rim that will give the value.

Hope this helps

Gwhite wrote:A lot depends on the quality of the targets.... Targets from Cibles (Canada), Edelmann & Kruger (Europe) use shorter fibers & thicker paper, which tends to produce much cleaner holes.

My 604 cuts clean holes in Kruger targets. In the U.S. they ship out of Oregon. http://www.kruger-us-targets.com/

Thanks for the link. I'll try that.

Another quick and dirty pellet seater is to weld/braze a 1/4" ball bearing to the cut off end of a good sized nail. You can then seat at an angle.

Rover wrote:Another quick and dirty pellet seater is to weld/braze a 1/4" ball bearing to the cut off end of a good sized nail. You can then seat at an angle.

This does a good job of mimicking the old Beeman pellet seater:



I bought one eons ago & never used it much. I then got a Steyr LP50, and a bunch of pellets that were just tight enough it was hard to get them all seated properly in the magazine just using my thumb. I dug out the seater, and it works very nicely.

if you don't have access to a welder, almost anything with an appropriate sized ball on the end would work. You can buy small spherical brass ball nuts that would work fine screwed on the end of a bolt:

http://www.libertybrass.com/catalog.htm ... iew&cid=30

They are often used on lamps, and you may be able to find some in a good hardware store or a lamp repair place.