I've been re-reading some threads on .32 calibre target pistols and am left pondering: What are the viable candidates for a shooter desiring a new (not used) pistol for ISSF 25 m Center Fire?
The Hammerli P240 and 280 are no longer in production.
The Hammerli SP20 seems to have a design or manufacturing flaw that leads to cracked frames and slides. While some users report no problem, a greater number seem to have failures. Further, Hammerli seems not to be addressing the problem. (I have an SP20 that I am very reluctant to shoot, especially with Lapua or equivalent ammo, for fear of being stuck with a broken gun.)
The Walther GSP Expert, being based upon the GSP (with which I had many years of satisfactory service), I would expect to be a prime candidate.
The Morini CM 32M had problems early on, but in one thread here on TT, Francesco detailed several issues that Morini addressed. How have the ones produced since 2005 fared? Is it now a viable candidate?
Haven't seen any recent discussion of the F.A.S. Domino CF603. (My 601 and 602 I.G.I. Domino pistols were a joy to shoot but a bear to maintain.) Anyone have any experience with the 603 to relate?
Unique is no longer in production.
The MatchGuns .32 is very new. Does anyone have one yet?
The Tesro TS32 bears some similarity to the Walther (based upon looking at the owner's manual) and I would expect it to be reliable and sturdy, but does anyone have experience to offer? (Not that it matters much to me, since I read that Tesro declines to sell in the North American market.)
Pardini .22 pistols have a great reputation (at least the recent models). How does the HP model rate (mechanical trigger or electronic trigger).
So, what do I suggest to a shooter who wants a new, reliable pistol for ISSF Center Fire?
Mike T.
Options for .32
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Mike Taylor
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David Levene
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Re: Options for .32
Given the opportunity (here in the UK) I would choose the 603 every time.Mike Taylor wrote:Haven't seen any recent discussion of the F.A.S. Domino CF603. (My 601 and 602 I.G.I. Domino pistols were a joy to shoot but a bear to maintain.) Anyone have any experience with the 603 to relate?
I couldn't recommend them to anyone else though because I know how much love and attention they need.
I chose a Pardini, my new Pardini HP .32 (mechanical trigger) turned up yesterday, this gun will replace my well tested Walther GSP .32.
A quick range test yesterday had it performing as good as my Walther straight out of the box, no load development, grip or trigger adjustment ...... yet.
Can't comment on reliability yet but have not heard of many problems from other shooters.
The main reason for me changing to the Pardini was to have a gun with more rake on the grip as I have been using a Pardini SP .22 for a couple of years and struggled with the more upright grip of the Walther GSP.
Mike
A quick range test yesterday had it performing as good as my Walther straight out of the box, no load development, grip or trigger adjustment ...... yet.
Can't comment on reliability yet but have not heard of many problems from other shooters.
The main reason for me changing to the Pardini was to have a gun with more rake on the grip as I have been using a Pardini SP .22 for a couple of years and struggled with the more upright grip of the Walther GSP.
Mike
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JulianY
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Re: Options for .32
And besides why give you edge away ;)David Levene wrote:Given the opportunity (here in the UK) I would choose the 603 every time.Mike Taylor wrote:Haven't seen any recent discussion of the F.A.S. Domino CF603. (My 601 and 602 I.G.I. Domino pistols were a joy to shoot but a bear to maintain.) Anyone have any experience with the 603 to relate?
I couldn't recommend them to anyone else though because I know how much love and attention they need.
J
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JulianY
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I am sure it is and I don't use one very often. I find I can miss a round if i don't get the hammer back properly, but is just my lack of use.top end wrote:re: duelling with a revolver, like everything else - just a matter of technique and practice!
I do like the pistol though. the gun I have "access" to won the Dutch nation championships a few years back. I would love to be able take it there again, but then I am dreaming, that is not on the cards - yet!
Julian
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A.J. Tourigny
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Mike Taylor
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.32 target pistols
OK, the consensus puts the Walther GSP Expert on the short list. No argument from me.
I have received good reports, too, on the Pardini HPnew (although there is not consensus on the electronic trigger).
However, I was hoping for some comments from owners with experience with the MatchGuns .32 and the Morini CM 32M.
Admittedly, revolvers are usually very reliable and the 'target' versions are superbly accurate. Cocking between shots is readily learned and is not a real concern for ISSF Centre Fire, but for CISM Military Rapid Fire (5-shot series in 10, 8, and 6 seconds) recocking a revolver becomes problematic - and yes, there is the possibility of shooting those series double-action. It is pretty well a moot point though because the only .32 revolver that is not of 'prohibited' status in Canada is the Manurhin MR 32 Match. A recent thread on TT had questions concerning the quality of current Manurhin revolvers. Additionally, I understand that they are quite expensive, significantly more than a .32 self-loading (semi-auto) target pistol.
So, for a new (current production), reliable, .32 target pistol (semi-auto) suitable for ISSF Centre Fire and for CISM Military Rapid Fire, the candidates (in Canada) are:
Walther GSP Expert
Pardini HPnew
and ???
Mike T.
I have received good reports, too, on the Pardini HPnew (although there is not consensus on the electronic trigger).
However, I was hoping for some comments from owners with experience with the MatchGuns .32 and the Morini CM 32M.
Admittedly, revolvers are usually very reliable and the 'target' versions are superbly accurate. Cocking between shots is readily learned and is not a real concern for ISSF Centre Fire, but for CISM Military Rapid Fire (5-shot series in 10, 8, and 6 seconds) recocking a revolver becomes problematic - and yes, there is the possibility of shooting those series double-action. It is pretty well a moot point though because the only .32 revolver that is not of 'prohibited' status in Canada is the Manurhin MR 32 Match. A recent thread on TT had questions concerning the quality of current Manurhin revolvers. Additionally, I understand that they are quite expensive, significantly more than a .32 self-loading (semi-auto) target pistol.
So, for a new (current production), reliable, .32 target pistol (semi-auto) suitable for ISSF Centre Fire and for CISM Military Rapid Fire, the candidates (in Canada) are:
Walther GSP Expert
Pardini HPnew
and ???
Mike T.
<opinion only mode>
I too have been looking for a 32 auto, and like you can't decide.
I shot a full match with a friends Walther GSP - which he has only had for about 2 months.
The gun feels very "tinny", little alloy parts (especially the sights) and a very cheap metal feel to it. I found it recoiled sharply and was hard to recover the sights (as though it was too long) and the trigger was ... <clear throat> awful. By the way this had a KN Nill grip, which is a much better option than the factory laminated grip.
The magazine would jump loose after every 2nd or 3rd shot, which I have seen several other new models do too. The fix seems to be a very deep groove cut in the mag - which didn't fill me with joy in a brand new A$2500 gun. I therefore had to check it was seated home after every shot, which sort of defeated the purpose of an auto!
The case catcher he had (an alloy tab thing that used velcro to hold it on and a small cloth bag held to the tab with a cable tie - that costs A$200!!!) worked very well and actually passes through the box.
I also tried a friends Pardini HP new. It was much nicer to shoot, felt like it was better made and had a good balance to it. The trigger was OK, probably better than the Walther, but nothing exciting.
I also had a look an a Pardini HP new - electronic. I thought this might be a good idea for duelling dry fire. But the trigger geometry is terrible, it feels like 3kg, not 1360g and (at least on the one I saw) single stage. The mechanical trigger was so much better and there are no 3rd party grip choices for the electronic HP. I only dry fired it, no live shots, but it stayed in the shop when I left.
So I've stuck to my K38 and have a Manurhin Match 32 now too, which is milder to shoot, but the trigger isn't as good as the Smith and .32 is a bit more fussy about ammo (important for precision stage).
With Centrefire dropped from the Comm Games post 2010, it seems less and less likely a new .32 auto will come on the market to better these two...but I live in hope.
</opinion only mode>
I too have been looking for a 32 auto, and like you can't decide.
I shot a full match with a friends Walther GSP - which he has only had for about 2 months.
The gun feels very "tinny", little alloy parts (especially the sights) and a very cheap metal feel to it. I found it recoiled sharply and was hard to recover the sights (as though it was too long) and the trigger was ... <clear throat> awful. By the way this had a KN Nill grip, which is a much better option than the factory laminated grip.
The magazine would jump loose after every 2nd or 3rd shot, which I have seen several other new models do too. The fix seems to be a very deep groove cut in the mag - which didn't fill me with joy in a brand new A$2500 gun. I therefore had to check it was seated home after every shot, which sort of defeated the purpose of an auto!
The case catcher he had (an alloy tab thing that used velcro to hold it on and a small cloth bag held to the tab with a cable tie - that costs A$200!!!) worked very well and actually passes through the box.
I also tried a friends Pardini HP new. It was much nicer to shoot, felt like it was better made and had a good balance to it. The trigger was OK, probably better than the Walther, but nothing exciting.
I also had a look an a Pardini HP new - electronic. I thought this might be a good idea for duelling dry fire. But the trigger geometry is terrible, it feels like 3kg, not 1360g and (at least on the one I saw) single stage. The mechanical trigger was so much better and there are no 3rd party grip choices for the electronic HP. I only dry fired it, no live shots, but it stayed in the shop when I left.
So I've stuck to my K38 and have a Manurhin Match 32 now too, which is milder to shoot, but the trigger isn't as good as the Smith and .32 is a bit more fussy about ammo (important for precision stage).
With Centrefire dropped from the Comm Games post 2010, it seems less and less likely a new .32 auto will come on the market to better these two...but I live in hope.
</opinion only mode>
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PAOBO42
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deadeyedick
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Mike Taylor
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CM32M
Tycho,
That is the sort of feedback for which I am looking. As I noted in my opening message, Francesco wrote that problems with the CM32M had been addressed by the factory. Are any of these non-working pistols which you have seen of recent manufacture, that is, since 2005 (when the problems were reportedly corrected)?
Of the ones you have seen, is there a common problem (such as failure to feed a round, or breakage of a specific part) or is there a variety of problems?
The design of the pistol seems pretty straight forward (particularly as compared to the MG2), so I wouldn't expect feeding problems, but ...?
Morini does make the highly-rated CM162 series of air pistols and the CM84E free pistol, but these guns are all single-shot designs, whereas the CM22M and the CM32M are semi-autos. Still, in another thread here on TT, there is a glowing report on the CM22M RF, so Morini can get the semi-auto to work.
???
Mike T.
That is the sort of feedback for which I am looking. As I noted in my opening message, Francesco wrote that problems with the CM32M had been addressed by the factory. Are any of these non-working pistols which you have seen of recent manufacture, that is, since 2005 (when the problems were reportedly corrected)?
Of the ones you have seen, is there a common problem (such as failure to feed a round, or breakage of a specific part) or is there a variety of problems?
The design of the pistol seems pretty straight forward (particularly as compared to the MG2), so I wouldn't expect feeding problems, but ...?
Morini does make the highly-rated CM162 series of air pistols and the CM84E free pistol, but these guns are all single-shot designs, whereas the CM22M and the CM32M are semi-autos. Still, in another thread here on TT, there is a glowing report on the CM22M RF, so Morini can get the semi-auto to work.
???
Mike T.
No, can't remember having seen a CM32 made after 2005. But I do remember Francesco reporting problems with the barrels, and I think the feeding problems were never really resolved. The thing is so rare, it's hard to get any reports whatsoever. Besides, the one I held were really heavy and I'm not too sure about the grip / angle, but that may be personal taste (I really hate the grip of the CM22 RF, too - sorry, Francesco). I think the .32 market is so small, it's hard for any manufacturer to find the resources and the motivation to do development on a pistol that won't really work. I think that the same happened to Tesro, although new reports say that the Tesro .32 is ready to roll now. Personally, I'll stick to my 603 until the MG4 (have an order open there) comes along...
Hammerli
I think you are dismissing the SP20 too quickly.
After shooting the Pardini, trying the Walther, I was immediately impressed when I picked up the Hammerli. I've shot about 3000 rounds through mine, and only had some problems with break-in, when everything fit too tight and it had to be cleaned after every 80 shots. I've since tried most other guns, and remain very happy with my Hammerli.
The Walther grip is too upright for me, and I would suspect that any of these high end pistols is as accurate as the next. For me it comes down to feel of the grip, feel of the trigger, and what I see of the sights. I don't know about the frame cracking, but then again I load fairly light.
After shooting the Pardini, trying the Walther, I was immediately impressed when I picked up the Hammerli. I've shot about 3000 rounds through mine, and only had some problems with break-in, when everything fit too tight and it had to be cleaned after every 80 shots. I've since tried most other guns, and remain very happy with my Hammerli.
The Walther grip is too upright for me, and I would suspect that any of these high end pistols is as accurate as the next. For me it comes down to feel of the grip, feel of the trigger, and what I see of the sights. I don't know about the frame cracking, but then again I load fairly light.
Bernelli's
Has anyone tried the Bernelli models 90 or 95 32 cal.?
What did you think of them?
What did you think of them?