MG 2 operation - how does it work?

[Shooting Kiwi]

Having spent quite some time trying to get a FAS 607 and a Unique DES 69 to feed reliably, I've got interested in feeding mechanisms and am surprised how the 'standard' semi-autos seem to rely on a mixture of luck and timing, rather than mechanical guidance, to feed.

I know the MG 2 has (had?) its problems and detractors, but it seems an interesting approach to the problem. Can anyone direct me to a source (in English - the nearest I've found is an article in Swedish)) explaining and illustrating exactly how the thing works?

[terrypchan]

Have you tried reading the literature on and viewing the diagrams on:

http://www.matchguns.com/pagine/ingmod2.html

[Shooting Kiwi]

Thanks, yes, but unfortunately, the 3D stuff wants Internet Explored 4.0 or higher in order to run - I'm running Linux. Frustrating, but at least the 'blue screen of death' doesn't happen! So I'm looking for .pdf, .html, or other 'standard' file types.

[Mellberg]

My experience is that it doesn't work. Everyone I know in Sweden that has/had a MG2 has had so much trouble with it that they bought something else. And it's actually a 100% fact with no exceptions. Everyone I know (that I can think of at least) bought something else.

In all cases it was because of feeding problems.

[Mark Briggs]

Well, it appears that experience varies... I own 2 MG-2's and both work flawlessly. There are two more MG-2's in town and one of them works well. Recently a local shooter, Brian James, posted here about his MG-2 and its troubles. He has since sent it back to the factory for repair, and after test-firing it on Saturday he feels it is working as it should. So that makes 4 out of 4 that work. Not a bad average.

So how does it work? Well, I can explain it in fairly simple terms.

Firstly, assume the slide is in the fully-forward position.

Cartridges are held in a 5-shot tubular magazine. When the magazine is inserted into the pistol the lever holding the cartridges in place moves out of the way, allowing the first cartridge to move rearward, onto the cartridge carrier. This is a cradle-type device which pivots on a pin behind the cartridge. As the slide moves to the rear it pushes downward on two ears that project upward from the cartridge carrier, causing the carrier to pivot, moving the cartridge upward. At the same time the slide contacts the rear end of the bullet insert lever, causing it to pivot about its central pivot point. The front arm of the bullet insert lever moves downward from the slide cover (that funky blue aluminum top of the pistol) with the net effect of stopping the upcoming cartridge from "popping" upward. Supported below by the cartridge carrier and above by the bullet insert lever, the cartridge is now perfectly aligned with the chamber - not on an angle as with most box magazines. The rear-most portion of slide travel cocks the hammer. As the slide moves forward it pushes the cartridge into the chamber, and at the same time pushes the bullet insert lever and cartridge carrier back to their normal at-rest positions. When the cartridge carrier reaches its full at-rest position another loaded cartridge is pushed rearward by the magazine spring into position on the cartridge carrier, ready to be loaded for the next shot.

Pulling the trigger causes the hammer to rotate downward and forward from its cocked position in the slide cover, striking the firing pin. Upon recoil, the entire loading process is repeated as the slide moves to the rear, ejecting the spent casing and loading another loaded cartridge.

If you wish to do a search on this site you'll find references to high-speed camera shots of various standard pistols in action. That reference is actually a Swedish site if I'm not mistaken. If you view the MG-2 video you'll see how this whole mechanism works.

Much as I hate to be contradict the valued opinions of others here, in this case I must contradict the opinion stated by Mellberg. The MG-2 works just fine. Earlier versions of the pistol had their troubles, but current production units seem to have a very high success rate.

[julioalperi]

You can see it here:
http://karlslundesport.dk/default.asp?A ... u&Item=114

[Shooting Kiwi]

Thanks Mark for the very useful description and thanks everyone else. Please don't continue the anti-MG-2 rant - I accept that some don't / didn't work.

I've seen the videos - fascinating. I hadn't expected the slide to bounce so much on closing (although I don't know why I thought it shouldn't).

What I'm hoping for is a general arrangement drawing or photos of its guts. Anyone seen anything?

My interest stems from a dissatisfaction with the design of feeding mechanism used by my FAS and Unique pistols. My Hammerli 208 uses the same idea, but, perhaps because of Swiss precision, works 100% reliably. The others tend to bruise the bullet as they fling it askew into (or in the general direction of) the breech. Also, the FAS seems designed for a slightly shorter round than Lapua Magazine. Eley ammo is about 1mm shorter overall, which helps, but shorter still would be better.

[Ted Bell]

Your best bet is to use a library or friend's computer to view the files on the company's website - they really are quite thorough, and I believe have all the information you're looking for.

Thanks,
Ted

[julioalperi]

I have just scanned four drawings from my MG2 inst. manual. I´m ready to send them to your email address if you like.

[Shooting Kiwi]

Thanks, they would, I'm sure, be very interesting.

Why not post them here? I'm sure othere would be interested. Hopefully, some of the MG-2 detractors, who don't seem to be MG-2 owners, might even learn something.

[julioalperi]

I know how to send images as attached files in an email but it seems not so easy for me otherwise. Here is what T T says about it:
Can I post Images?
Images can indeed be shown in your posts. However, there is no facility at present for uploading images directly to this board. Therefore you must link to an image stored on a publicly accessible web server, e.g. http://www.some-unknown-place.net/my-picture.gif. You cannot link to pictures stored on your own PC (unless it is a publicly accessible server) nor to images stored behind authentication mechanisms such as Hotmail or Yahoo mailboxes, password-protected sites, etc. To display the image use either the BBCode [img] tag or appropriate HTML (if allowed).

[Ted Bell]

Julio;

If you want to send a copy of the files to me, I'll post them here.

Thanks,
Ted

[MG2-owner]

My experience is that it doesn't work. Everyone I know in Sweden that has/had a MG2 has had so much trouble with it that they bought something else. And it's actually a 100% fact with no exceptions. Everyone I know (that I can think of at least) bought something else.

In all cases it was because of feeding problems.

Umph, yes, you European shooting pal. You have got it right.
Again, it appears downright strange to me, how som guns (mostly in the US) perform reliably, while (all?) MG2-guns in Europe do not.

[julioalperi]

Thanks Ted.
I´ll send them to you as soon as I know your email address. The images (four) must be seen in this order *1-1.bmp, *1-2.bmp, *2-1.bmp and 2-2.bmp.
Julio

[julioalperi]

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[julioalperi]

[julioalperi]

[julioalperi]

[tleddy]

Now that I have seen the diagrams, it is obvious that Cesare marches to a different drummer.

I do not recall having seen a pistol with a tubular magazine before... rifles, yes.

Is there another pistol that utilizes a tubular?

Tillman in Florida

[Non-reliable guns...]

I do not recall having seen a pistol with a tubular magazine before... rifles, yes.

Is there another pistol that utilizes a tubular?

Yeah. The very ill-fathed Morini 102E. Just as bad as the MG2.
(Or was it a triffle better? The CM102 asked for a couple of well-trained technicans to keep it working, like the MG2, but who did care?)