Strange sight movement.

[millsbomb]

Hello,
Over the last 45 years of competitive shooting and during WW2 I have had more pistols than I can remember and always the back sight is moved in the direction you want the shot to go. For example; if your shots go ‘low’ you move the sights towards the ‘H’ (high), but my FWB 103 works the other way, if your shots go low, you have to move your sights to ‘L’ (low) which will lift the back sight and correct the problem. There might be a good reason for this strange system but I’m dammed if I can figure it out, any ideas anyone.

[JulianY]

Reason I don't know, but it pretty much standard on German/European pistols. I think of it as you are telling the gun "Your going high"....

Not sure which way British pistols go though any one know ?

JY

[Steve Swartz]

Mills:

You are correct- there are two standards- "Up/Down" (north american?) and "High/Low" (european?).

Of course in both cases, you move the rear sight itself in the actual direction yoiu want the shots to move- move the rear sight up, the mean point of impact will move up.

It's just that in the "Up/Down" system the "Up/Down" refers to where you want the shots to move- and in the "High/Low" system the "High/Low" refers to where the shots are already falling ("too high/too low").

When in doubt, move the rear sight and count clicks while noting the direction it's actually moving. Once you have established the direction it actually moves when you fiddle with the adjustment knob/screw, go back to where it was initially and then make yoiiur desired correction.

Steve Swartz

[Dragon 2]

Mills,
With a FWB P103 you should have "bei" stamped on the rear sight. The FWB sights are designed to follow the shot. Adjustments are "with" the shot group.

Yes, it is counter intuitive to everything you have ever experienced in an American manufatured arm. As you noted, the sights move as you would expect. You turn to the "L" for a grouping to left side of teh bull and turn to the "R" for grouping on the right side of the bull.

If you shoot "high" turn to the "H" and if you shoot low turn to the "T".

In every case if you watch the actual movement of the sight it will move exactly as you expected it to move.

The FWB sight has been a challenge to me for years. Simple enough to remember but is easily forgotten when using other pistol brands and designs.

Good shooting,
Phil

[diopter]

Dragon 2 pretty much summed it up.

Most german sights have "bei" on the knobs or engraved on them.
"bei" translates to "bye the........."

Corrections are by where the shot was.

H = Hoch = High
T = Tief = Deep/Low (remember as: low down thief)
L = Links = Left ....(NOT Low)
R= Recht = Right

If your shots are:
High, turn in direction H
Low, turn in direction T
Left, turn in direction L
Right, turn in direction R

[millsbomb]

Thanks folks,
Over the years I have used US pistols mainly, so I have made little round stickers to go over the German directions with High-Low-Left-Right. I think in the tension of a match, the last thing I want to worry about is converting sight movements, I would rather stick with what I am used to. One thing I have noticed, reading this BBS, is that ALL 10m airpistol shooters have the same problems, from the top shots to the beginner, so we are not alone, thousands of poor souls are like us, struggling.
Bob.

[Slo cat]

diopter said it best. In a clinic taught by Erich Buljung, he said it the same way. "If your shots are high, turn toward the H, etc., etc.

But I also have a small 'cheat sheet' in my international gun box with the American sight directions for all my guns. I also don't want to make a mistake under the stress of competition. And I definately need a translation for the sight adjustment markings on my TOZ 35M. But I best like the adj. markings on my MG-2. This has pictorial directions, similar but different to the Hämmerli 208s.

Best Regards,
Slo cat

[Nicole Hamilton]

But I also have a small 'cheat sheet' in my international gun box with the American sight directions for all my guns.

Speaking of "cheat sheets," what I find useful is to translate whatever the specification is in the manual (usually mm/click at the expected target distance) to clicks/ring. Most times I'm shooting, I'm at the firing position looking at the target through a scope, not standing next to it with a ruler! This works really well on international targets, where the distance between rings is always the same for a given target. (On an NRA target, where the distance increases as you go out from the center, I use the distance between the inner rings.)

For example, here are the numbers for a few of my guns on the appropriate targets:

Steyr LP-10: 6.67 clicks/ring (T moves up, R moves left)
Pardini SP New: 5.01 clicks/ring
Pardini K22: 3.18 clicks/ring

[tenex]

Which way do the Pardini sights go? According to the book, the shot goes in the direction of the arrow, but I can't remember as I am not fond of constantly chasing my sights.

But what would you expect from the only company that makes a pressure gauge that doesn't require you to point the gun at your head to read!

I'll shut up now...

Steve.

[Nicole Hamilton]

Which way do the Pardini sights go?

Pardini sights are easy. Windage is marked with arrows showing the direction you'll move the group if you turn one direction or the other. Elevation is marked + (up) or - (down).

[diopter]

Pictograms for the Pardini.

+ to go higher.
- to go lower.
<┐ to go left.
└> to go right




I use both sight systems regularly. Not a big deal, with practice.

[pgfaini]

I've placed, on all my pistols, a label on the bottom or left side of the grip stating which way to turn the adjustment screws. For example, on my IZH-35: CW=Up&Rt. On my Benelli P95: CW=Dn.&Rt. This saves having to remember, under pressure of the match. On my FP and AP, I've even got the distance each click moves the impact.

Paul