Different pellets, why does it matter?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:29 am

For this, I compared R10 pellets, the only difference is the weight, and the can it came from.

The results I gathered shooting from my AP, the heavier AR pellets hit a low right grouping near the 5-6 area, has been wondering since then, WHY?

Just asking, cause one day I found I was out with R10 AP pellets, so I took some R10 pellets from the AR team, didn't get used to it, bought my own from the counter.

And does the AR pellets cause a increase in recoil? I'm firing a LP1, still doing very well and wining medals compared to people with LP10s. Great gun. Serviced of course.

JulianY · Post by **JulianY** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:41 am

R10 AP pellets weight 7 grains
R10 AR pellets weight 8.2 grains

The AR pellets being heavier by 17%

I don’t know the velocity of the LP1 but given that the LP1 produces a constant level of energy I would expect the heavier pellet to travel slower. However because of the constant level of energy and Newton’s laws I would not expect the recoil to increase.

I do believe that the velocity of the LP1 is slower that the LP10 which shoots heavier rifle pellets (“recommended”) at around 160 m/s.

As added complication could be the pellet size R10s com in several sizes from 4.48 to 4.52. This can affect the velocity and the size of the group.

So yes I would expect a drop using AR pellets, I am surprised by how much, and I can explain the shift to the right. I do get the impression that the LP1 is not powerfull to handle them. Though this may be just a matter of adjustment.

Do you know the velocity of the LP1 .

Perhaps Scott can advise

Julian

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:06 am

JulianY wrote: So yes I would expect a drop using AR pellets, I am surprised by how much, and I can explain the shift to the right. I do get the impression that the LP1 is not powerfull to handle them. Though this may be just a matter of adjustment.

I don't know where you get that impression from. My LP1 shoots heavier pellets (Vogel) at ~ 520 f/s (157 m/s). If anything, the LP1 has more 'power' available because there is no counterweight to move. The question, which can only be resolved by testing, is what weight, size, brand of pellet will result in the smallest group from a specific AP. The location of the group is, of course, easily adjusted with the sights.

JulianY · Post by **JulianY** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:19 am

Fred Mannis wrote: I don't know where you get that impression from. My LP1 shoots heavier pellets (Vogel) at ~ 520 f/s (157 m/s). If anything, the LP1 has more 'power' available because there is no counterweight to move. The question, which can only be resolved by testing, is what weight, size, brand of pellet will result in the smallest group from a specific AP. The location of the group is, of course, easily adjusted with the sights.

Fred,

I think you mis understand my remark I did not mean the LP1 in general but this particular one might be a bit under powered.

Regardless of power I am still a bit concerned by the big dfferance approx 45mm if it around the 5 ring. I would have expected a flatter trajectory that that.

though testing as you say is the only answer.

Jy

jrmcdaniel · Post by **jrmcdaniel** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:12 am

For the smallest groups, try domed pellets. I tried JSB Exact Heavy (10.2grains) in my SAM M10 and was amazed at how much more accurate they are. Unfortunately, these are not legal for actual matches. I suspect the better BC helps (as does the fact that they don't "cut" a very neat hole). If you want to shoot much beyone 10M, any domed pellet will work far better than a wad cutter -- even a heavy dome is better than any wad cutter.

Joe

Nano · Post by **Nano** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:21 am

In my pistol, the diference between heavy pellets and pistol pellets are one or two clicks in the vertical.
Never in the 5 ring.

Nano

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:16 am

jrmcdaniel wrote:For the smallest groups, try domed pellets. I tried JSB Exact Heavy (10.2grains) in my SAM M10 and was amazed at how much more accurate they are. Unfortunately, these are not legal for actual matches. I suspect the better BC helps (as does the fact that they don't "cut" a very neat hole). If you want to shoot much beyone 10M, any domed pellet will work far better than a wad cutter -- even a heavy dome is better than any wad cutter.

Joe

I agree. For AP silhouette matches I have been shooting Beeman Trophy, which is a 7.88 grain domed pellet, in my LP50. Very accurate and flat enough trajectory over the 10-18 yd course that I don't have to change my sights. The LP50 does not have much power - about 480 f/s with this pellet - so I have not tried any of the heavier pellets.

pgfaini · Post by **pgfaini** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:21 pm

JulianY wrote:
Fred Mannis wrote: I don't know where you get that impression from. My LP1 shoots heavier pellets (Vogel) at ~ 520 f/s (157 m/s). If anything, the LP1 has more 'power' available because there is no counterweight to move. The question, which can only be resolved by testing, is what weight, size, brand of pellet will result in the smallest group from a specific AP. The location of the group is, of course, easily adjusted with the sights.
Fred,

I think you mis understand my remark I did not mean the LP1 in general but this particular one might be a bit under powered.

Regardless of power I am still a bit concerned by the big dfferance approx 45mm if it around the 5 ring. I would have expected a flatter trajectory that that.

though testing as you say is the only answer.

Jy

Julian, I can't see such a change in POI. I think he must have meant 5:00-6:00 (Low Right), not the 5-6 ring.

Paul

JulianY · Post by **JulianY** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:39 pm

pgfaini wrote:
Julian, I can't see such a change in POI. I think he must have meant 5:00-6:00 (Low Right), not the 5-6 ring.

Paul

me nether! lets wait for "guest" to clariify

jy

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:51 pm

jrmcdaniel wrote:I tried JSB Exact Heavy (10.2grains) in my SAM M10 and was amazed at how much more accurate they are. Unfortunately, these are not legal for actual matches.

Why not?

Provided that they are made of lead or similar soft material, are not jacketed and are nominally 4.5mm (.177") calibre then they are perfectly legal under ISSF rule 8.4.6. Just because they are domed does not mean they are not permitted.

Match organisers, at events below World Cup status, are obviously free to impose additional rules provided that they let the competitors know beforehand that they are not shooting to strict ISSF rules.

Domed pellets are obviously more difficult to score than wadcutters but that is the scorer's problem, not the shooter's.