How to shoot the Pneumatics??

[kiko]

Hi all.
On the Pneumatics pistols ie, FWB, Baikal, or Daisys and on Big Matches where rules are enforced strickly, safety, gun downrange, etc.
How do shooters if any, operate their pistols, how do they reload whitout pointing the gun to the public ( back) fellow shooters, or else. I mean: do they move and change their stand in order to do so. or they just force themselves to keep their stand and at the same time cock and reload the pistol?

I remember back in my ages it wasnt an issue. pointing the gun backwards: no big deal. but today??
thanks, K

[jrmcdaniel]

Perhaps you are thinking of break-barrel airguns? The typical 10m gun rifle or pistol has a fixed barrel with lever cocking or pumping and the muzzle direction can be downrange at all times. The Gamo pistol is the only 10m gun I know of (admittedly with limited knowledge) that has a break-barrel which would point downward when opened to pump but downrange as one closes the breech.

Best,

Joe McDaniel

[Spencer]

I remember back in my ages it wasnt an issue. pointing the gun backwards: no big deal. but today??
thanks, K

no big deal?????

where and when was this?

spencer

[RobStubbs]

It's up to the shooters how they cock and load the gun but safety is still paramount. Most seem happy enough to break the guns whilst in their stance and do so safely. However if I was a range officer and anyone was failing to keep the gun down range it would be a warning followed by a disqualification if it happened again - and they'd be told that at the first warning.

Rob.

[JulianY]

It's up to the shooters how they cock and load the gun but safety is still paramount. Most seem happy enough to break the guns whilst in their stance and do so safely. However if I was a range officer and anyone was failing to keep the gun down range it would be a warning followed by a disqualification if it happened again - and they'd be told that at the first warning.

Rob.

I tend to agree with you but i think it depends a bit on the pistol concerned.

If you have an Izzy or a FWB then there is no problem but if you have a Gamo Compact of a FAA 604 its a lot more difficult. I am not sure how it can be done.

Anybody know how the pony club do it? in the UK they use a low of Gamos

Julian

[David Levene]

I tend to agree with you but i think it depends a bit on the pistol concerned.

If you have an Izzy or a FWB then there is no problem but if you have a Gamo Compact of a FAA 604 its a lot more difficult. I am not sure how it can be done.

I don't think it's a major problem Julian.

With those guns you may have to twist at the waist and bring the gun close in to the body to reload but that can be done quite easily. Most shooters will do that to a greater or lesser extent with all air pistols.

I think that the operative part of rule 8.2.5.1 is "The action, breech or loading device must not be closed until the pistol is pointing down range in a safe direction toward the target/butt stop area." This should not be a problem. If the gun is not pointing down range when it is shut then the shooter deserves to feel the full weight of the rules.

[JulianY]

I don't think it's a major problem Julian.

With those guns you may have to twist at the waist and bring the gun close in to the body to reload but that can be done quite easily. Most shooters will do that to a greater or lesser extent with all air pistols.

I think that the operative part of rule 8.2.5.1 is "The action, breech or loading device must not be closed until the pistol is pointing down range in a safe direction toward the target/butt stop area." This should not be a problem. If the gun is not pointing down range when it is shut then the shooter deserves to feel the full weight of the rules.

From memory ( My gamo is in the UK but I will try it next weekend) The Barrel is housed in the top half which acts as the leaver. When the gun if fully open the barrel actually points to the grip. The pellet is loaded and then the top is forces back into place. Then manual shows this is all done with the barrel facing forward. But from memory it takes quite a lot of strength and weeker players may not be able to achieve this. again from memory the easiest way is with the gun parallel to the body ie barrel ends up pointing backwards. - not the best idea. I'll have a play next weekend and see just how easy it is.

JY


JY

[David Levene]

I don't think it's a major problem Julian.

With those guns you may have to twist at the waist and bring the gun close in to the body to reload but that can be done quite easily. Most shooters will do that to a greater or lesser extent with all air pistols.

I think that the operative part of rule 8.2.5.1 is "The action, breech or loading device must not be closed until the pistol is pointing down range in a safe direction toward the target/butt stop area." This should not be a problem. If the gun is not pointing down range when it is shut then the shooter deserves to feel the full weight of the rules.

From memory ( My gamo is in the UK but I will try it next weekend) The Barrel is housed in the top half which acts as the leaver. When the gun if fully open the barrel actually points to the grip. The pellet is loaded and then the top is forces back into place. Then manual shows this is all done with the barrel facing forward. But from memory it takes quite a lot of strength and weeker players may not be able to achieve this. again from memory the easiest way is with the gun parallel to the body ie barrel ends up pointing backwards. - not the best idea. I'll have a play next weekend and see just how easy it is.

"....must not be closed until the pistol is pointing down range in a safe direction...."

The gun will not actually be closed until the barrel is pointing down range.

[kiko]

I think that the operative part of rule 8.2.5.1 is "The action, breech or loading device must not be closed until the pistol is pointing down range in a safe direction toward the target/butt stop area."

If according to 8.2.5.1 rule "I think" it is no brainer. with the breach open you can cock and point the gun to anywhere, floor, ceiling, backwards or yourself. That is how we used to do it with the FWB 65s , also using the help of our right knee ( strong spring).
But,
I think officers prefer the simple rule of gun pointing ALWAYS downrange.

some Izzy shooters said that they simply break their stance in order to load their pistols.

I wonder how would I shoot in a big match ( official and registered ) with my FWB 65. I mean without being kick out by pointing the gun to the back of the shooter standing next to me.

back in my days as long the pistols was no loaded , it was "not a big deal"

K.

[David Levene]

I think that the operative part of rule 8.2.5.1 is "The action, breech or loading device must not be closed until the pistol is pointing down range in a safe direction toward the target/butt stop area."

If according to 8.2.5.1 rule "I think" it is no brainer. with the breach open you can cock and point the gun to anywhere, floor, ceiling, backwards or yourself.......

I wonder how would I shoot in a big match ( official and registered ) with my FWB 65. I mean without being kick out by pointing the gun to the back of the shooter standing next to me.

The full rule 8.2.5.1 is:-
"When the pistol is out of its case, the pistol must always be pointed in a safe direction. When not actually firing, all pistols must be unloaded and the action must be open. The action, breech or loading device must not be closed until the pistol is pointing down range in a safe direction toward the target/butt stop area. In the range, when the pistol is not on the firing point, it must always be in its case, unless otherwise authorized by a Range Officer."

The first line of the rule makes it perfectly clear, you must not cock and point the gun anywhere. I have never had any trouble shooting an FWB65 and still complying with the rule. You just have to twist your body a bit to reload.

If you need to use your knee to allow you to reload then maybe you should be looking at a different gun ;-)

Match organisers are perfectly free to stipulate safety rules over and above those in the ISSF rules, rule 8.2.1 specifically allows it. They must however advise everyone beforehand.

[kiko]

If you need to use your knee to allow you to reload then maybe you should be looking at a different gun ;-)

That's why everybody jumped at the CO2s when they appeared.

I must admitt that using your knee to cock that spring was not very stylish. but we are talking in an era where air pistol was not even an Olympic discipline, as I remember, air pistol matches were just in its infancy.

Twisting the body, eh..? umm I guess I need to try that at home.
It will be interesting to go to Fort Benning and see how others do it, ( if any) . but I think it is still a hazzle and difficult to achieve higher scores with so many distractions, twisting and tilting etc.

I believe all the Izzy's shooters will jump into pre compressed air if Baikal makes one at under $300.- which I dont doubt they will soon.

[JulianY]

If you need to use your knee to allow you to reload then maybe you should be looking at a different gun ;-)

which goes back to my question; "how do the pony club kids do it ?" ok they are not issf but with respect to safty the issue remains the same.

any way i'll have a play and see what i can and cant do at the weekend

JY

[David Levene]

which goes back to my question; "how do the pony club kids do it ?"

They twist their body and use the shooting bench.

[Lanning R. Hochhauser]

The other day I was watching a new shooter trying to master the load on his new Gamo compact. First he pinched his chest, then his hand closing the pistol.

I showed him he would have more control and leverage by putting the butt on the table when closing the pistol. It worked for him.
Lanning

[kiko]

Well, yeah,
I tried it, this morning at home with my Daysi. Just twisted my upper body a bit , pointing the gun down range, and a bit to the ceiling at maybe 70 degrees up, but always downrange and no need to move stance. must admit that at home there is no need to avoid pointing backwards as it is easy and more natural. it should be ok.
k.

[Spencer]

..that at home there is no need to avoid pointing backwards as it is easy and more natural. it should be ok.
k.

more better not to form a bad habit

Spencer

[JulianY]

I tried to see what i could do with my old gamo compact this weekend and my first impression was that it is quite hard to do and takes quite a bit of strength, so for young players this would be quite difficult.

It is defiantly possible to cock the weapon as described in the manual pointing down range, but this takes the most strength. Alternatives that worked include placing the but on the table or the target side hip. that defiantly made it more stable and gave more leverage.

Julian