Standard velocity 22lr ammo

[22lr]

I'd like to know your thoughts about the following brands of ammo:

S&B Standard
Remington Target
Geko

Would you use them on a Pardini 22lr for 150''/20''/1'' competitions?

[Axel]

Geco is RWS, good stuff! The other two... No, don't use it! Use quallity ammunition in your competition pistol, not the cheapest crap you can find.

I like Lapua and Eley.

Cheers,
Axel

[deleted1]

Don Nygord's famous comment used to be: "...if you spend big money to buy the world's best pistol, then why do you insult yourself by choosing the very worst ammo for it...." When I bought my SP from him he sent RWS Target along with the gun.

[Gwhite]

I would definitely avoid Remington. They may have gotten their act together, but for years their stuff was garbage.

If you are on a budget, you can find good ammo without going broke. My wife shoots Aguila subsonic in her SP, and it is quite accurate. My only concern is that after going through ~2500 rounds without ANY problems, she had a couple of alibis in one box recently. I cleaned the pistol and she tried the same box & had more light loads & feeding failures. She switched to a new box & everything was fine. She hasn't shot enough since to tell if the problem was just one bad box, or more widespread. It could also be the pistol, but that seems unlikely.

I shoot CCI standard velocity in my Benelli. My wife's Pardini didn't cycle reliably with it, but yours may be different. It is very accurate, and I haven't had any problems in over 7000 rounds.

All that said, I try to check with the local dealer when I'm running low. I find out when he's getting a new shipment in, and buy 500 rounds to try out. If it works well, I buy a case from that lot. I've bought over 50,000 rounds that way over the years, and had very good luck. I have also occasionally found lots that are NOT worth buying. Most of the ammo from most vendors is OK, but unless you are willing to pay for really top tier stuff, you will occasionaly find bad lots.

Vendors also tinker with their loads. I used to shoot Federal 711, and it functioned fine in all of my pistols. Then they came out with 711B, which is loaded to a slightly lower velocity. All of a sudden, I started having problems & had to switch brands.

Semi-autos can be very fussy about ammo, and you may have to try several types to find one that works well in your pistol. There are also differences in felt recoil, in the lubricant they use on the bullets, and how dirty the powder burns. Some ammo may shoot great, but gunk up your pistol very quickly. I like dry waxy lube over a grease-based lube for this reason.

One advantage of true "pistol" ammo is that it is designed to burn the powder in a short barrel. The vast majority of regular .22 ammo is designed for rifles. You can get slightly odd results shooting it in a short barrel, anything from lots of unburned powder in the action to a large fireball in front of your pistol with every shot (PMC used to do this).

[TonyT]

I shoot Wolf Match target and SKJagd Pistol Match in my Pardini SP. However, Aguilla SE the SV stuff shoots very well in my Walther GSP. The Aguilla is a bitt smokier than the Wolf.SKJagd.

[Slo cat]

I recently bought a case of VOSTOK Target .22 ammo from Sportsman's Guide. It must be old manufacture as the lables say "Made in USSR". Lots of misfires, in three different pistols, jams my MG-2 and Paul's Hämmerli 208 big time. This ammo has a heavy crimp just BELOW the mouth of the brass. Stay away from this stuff. It seems to shoot accurately enough in my VOSTOK TOZ 35M, but some rounds are extremely hard to chamber, others are easy.

Best Regards,
Slo cat

[LukeP]

Maybe Lapua pistol king?

[GOVTMODEL]

One advantage of true "pistol" ammo is that it is designed to burn the powder in a short barrel. The vast majority of regular .22 ammo is designed for rifles.

Who actually makes what you refer to as true "pistol" ammo?

[Fred Mannis]

One advantage of true "pistol" ammo is that it is designed to burn the powder in a short barrel. The vast majority of regular .22 ammo is designed for rifles.

Who actually makes what you refer to as true "pistol" ammo?

I have been told (can't remember who) that SK Pistol Match uses a faster burning powder.

[GOVTMODEL]

I have been told (can't remember who) that SK Pistol Match uses a faster burning powder.

I'm suspicious of such claims. The industry standards for testing .22 rimfire ammunition only has one procedure. The metrics vary for different types of ammunition, i.e., Standard Velocity, High Velocity, etc. There is no separate standard for pistol.

In the specific case of Eley, it's all loaded to the same level. The different labels represent varying levels of performance during QA testing.

For example, Match EPS and Pistol Match are actually off-spec TENEX.

I don't know about other makers.

[Tom]

Hi,

I posted this about 2 years ago. I edited it for better reading this time around along with a couple updates. One rule of thumb I have for the Pardini's is that the recoil and firing pin return springs be changed every 5K rounds. Which for me is every year.

My 2 cents,

Tom

===============================================
Hi,

I have been shooting SPE's and SP's since the 80's along with my current SP-New. This is what I have found with the ammo that I have tried. They are one of the least ammo sensative pistols I have ever used. At 50' to 25M, they all group well enough to clean targets if you do your part. I currently use Aguila SE Subsonic for practice and 50' NRA, I switch to Eley or RWS for the more important or longer yardage matches.

Eley: Works well, (except the new Tenex/EPS style bullet. The first round hangs up and slows feeding) Eley shoots good to great depending on how much you want to spend.

RWS: Works well, shoots good to great. Again, depending on grade.

SK: Works well however the subsonic, while I have found they go bang all the time and shoot well they don't fully cycle the SP's 100% of the time. Shoots well to great. Again, spend more, get more. Weird feeling lube.

Wolf: Same as SK as it's the same plant that makes it.

PMC Pistol Match: It works, Shoots OK. On par with the low end Eastern Europe stuff. The lot I tried did not go bang 100% of the time.

CCI
Standard: Doesn't work in either the SPE, SP or SP-New that I have or anyone else's I have seen either. It's too long to feed in the mags.

Green Tag: Works most of the time but you will get that one stuck in the mag every now and then, lots and lots of recoil, big flash. shoots well (if you can hold it down in rapid), compare to low to mid-range Eley. Keep your mags clean and wipe the nose of each round off for extra mag clearance.

Pistol match: Functions, shoots poorer than Green tag. I was disappointed. Less flash but heavy recoil.

Remington
Target green/blue box or yellow tray: Cheap and loud. Punishing recoil and dazzaling flash. Does not go bang all the time. Clean, very little residue.
Made by Eley type: See Eley comments.

Federal 711B Damaged lead in a lot of boxes from the machinery (guessing), soft recoil, Neither the flat or "Dimple bottom" were reliable as a match round. I turned in the remaining bricks for credit at the gun store. (yes, they were that bad)

Aguila
SE Std Vel: Cheap, shoots well, reliable if kept dry in storage (sealed ammo cans) and warm in cold shooting conditions. Average recoil, bit of flash. A bit greasy, it leaves some residue in the mags.

SE Subsonic: Same as above except with much less recoil and flash. May not cycle in all guns.

GE and Match: Same as above for function but maybe tighter groups at longer yardage (I have been told. I never used it at a match, only tested at 25 yards, didn't seem a lot better than SE in my pistol.)

[Richard H]

I have been told (can't remember who) that SK Pistol Match uses a faster burning powder.

I'm suspicious of such claims. The industry standards for testing .22 rimfire ammunition only has one procedure. The metrics vary for different types of ammunition, i.e., Standard Velocity, High Velocity, etc. There is no separate standard for pistol.

In the specific case of Eley, it's all loaded to the same level. The different labels represent varying levels of performance during QA testing.

For example, Match EPS and Pistol Match are actually off-spec TENEX.

I don't know about other makers.

Well maybe you should go to the Lapua web site, Pistol King is tested in a 150mm barrel as opposed to 660 mm barrel for the rifle ammo (except biathalon which is tested in a 550mm barrel.

[David Banks]

Definitely buy ammo in large batches, AFTER you have found one that works in your particular pistol. Always use pistol ammunition, as rifle ammunition is optimised for longer barrels. RWS is always good, you just need to find the right one for your pistol. Eley is much the same, quality ammo that you need to find the one to suit your particular pistol.

[GOVTMODEL]

I have been told (can't remember who) that SK Pistol Match uses a faster burning powder.

I'm suspicious of such claims. The industry standards for testing .22 rimfire ammunition only has one procedure. The metrics vary for different types of ammunition, i.e., Standard Velocity, High Velocity, etc. There is no separate standard for pistol.

In the specific case of Eley, it's all loaded to the same level. The different labels represent varying levels of performance during QA testing.

For example, Match EPS and Pistol Match are actually off-spec TENEX.

I don't know about other makers.

Well maybe you should go to the Lapua web site, Pistol King is tested in a 150mm barrel as opposed to 660 mm barrel for the rifle ammo (except biathalon which is tested in a 550mm barrel.

I was unclear/incomplete in my statement. Obviously Lapua is reporting results from pistol length barrels for two labels. There two (2) open issues here still:

(a) There is, to my knowledge, one (1) industry standard for measuring muzzle velocity, and it uses a standard rifle-length barrel. This makes it difficult to compare numbers from other makers (if they are available) because the data is not collected in a standard way.

(b) Is the pistol ammunition actually manufactured differently? Or are the reported results what you get when you shoot typical Standard Velocity ammunition from a short barrel?

The ISSF Rapid Fire Pistol event has a muzzle velocity requirement, and several manufacturers are making products optimized for that event. The test method is not, AFAIK, an adopted industry standard. When the 2005 rules became effective there was some complaining that the ISSF rules weren't as clear as needed. Unfortunately, Rapid Fire is not popular in the US and I've not had an opportunity to learn more about it.

[pgfaini]

Rittig, Remington Thunderbolts, Like Winchester Wildcat, and Federal Lightning, are what we in the States call "Promotional" ammo. Carried by stores and sold at slightly above cost to promote the sale of other, more profitable, shooting and hunting items. In my experience, of the three, only the Federal Lightning (#510) is of any use for training. I use it extensively, switching to "dimpled" Fed. #711B's and #900's for matches,(Still got a case of each). Although "high velocity" ,They use the same lube, and allow me to switch back and forth without having to scrub the barrel. I won't get into a long discourse about lubes and accuracy, I follow the "Schuetzen Shooters" philosophy regarding this. Since my supply of Fiocchi rimfire ammo dried up, I've been using the Federals in my TOZ, IZH, and Benelli, without problems. The #510 has recently been renamed "Champion". Last month, I bought a case of them at Walmart for 97¢/box. Haven't checked them in my Ransom Rest yet.
Paul

[Fred Mannis]

Always wondered about the origins of Federal 'Champion' I bought a case last year for $110 and have been using it as practice ammo. No problems with it. Having spent the last part of my career at the plant of a large plastic resin manufacturer, I know a little about QC, spec, and off-spec product. My view is that once you find a lot that meets your requirements buy as much of it as you can. Old mfg joke - the change we made was so subtle that only our customers could detect it. :-)

[pgfaini]

Old mfg joke - the change we made was so subtle that only our customers could detect it. :-)

Great line Fred, it's a keeper!:>)

Federal was bought out recently by CCI. Haven't detected any changes in the sensativity of the Federal primers, they being the most sensative, and CCI being among the least (Hardest cups). I did notice the omission of the Soviet "dimples" in their #711B's. This was of dubvious value in my opinion, the volume of primer flash being so large in comparison to the case volume, I couldn't see the direction being altered.

Paul

[Fred Mannis]

I did notice the omission of the Soviet "dimples" in their #711B's. This was of dubious value in my opinion, the volume of primer flash being so large in comparison to the case volume, I couldn't see the direction being altered.

Paul

Of dubious value to who? I thought the dimple was used to reduce the amount of primer needed, thus reducing cost of manufature. :-)

[Steve Swartz]

According to my testing, apparently the dimple was added to create sideways stress on the compound, resulting in fractured primers and inconsistent ignition . . .

=8^(

Steve

(my hammerli 208s goes bang with that stuff maybe 42 times out of 50. My CM 84E goes bang every time however; the surface area and striking force of firing pin between the two guns is significantly different! I swear the Morini could launch the bullet down the bore by firing pin momentum alone . . . )

[Ed Hall]

my hammerli 208s goes bang with that stuff maybe 42 times out of 50.

Hi Steve,

I had that kind of trouble until I changed the mainspring for a stock type, away from the Hammerli part. I wrote about it in an earlier thread. If you're interested, you can see that post at:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... t=40#68438

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/