Air Pistol Sights

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:07 pm

I have a Steyr LP10 air pistol, and at a recent training session a team member picked up my gun, and then told me that my rear sight was too narrow, and the front sight should be brought back.
The front sight is 5.5mm wide, and the rear notch is 3.2mm wide.
The length of the sight radius is 345mm.

I have now changed the rear sight notch to 4.5mm, and brought the front sight back so the sighting radius is 315mm.

He reckoned that this would stop me looking for a very fine sight picture, and would steady the gun. I shoot 6 o'clock hold.

Have I done the right thing?

I used to be a very good shooter,but Old Age is taking it's toll!! I am still very keen to continue, however I am sliding downhill rather too fast for my liking!! I need advice, and do not have a coach any more.
Thanks.
Alex L

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:28 pm

Well try it for a while and see how it works for you. Unfortunately there is no one way that will be perfect for everyone.

I shot with a moderately open rear sight, tried another guys pistol with a rear sight that was more open than mine I liked it so I widened mine.

I've yet to meet anyone that shoots well with a really narrow rear sight, But I'm sure we'll here from some that do. It's a personal thing that depends on your eye sight and hold aswell as your trigger control.

So the best thing is to try it for a while more than a few sessions ( more like a few months) if things improve then it is the right thing to do.

cdf · Post by **cdf** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:32 pm

Give the "old fart " sight setup a try , I use a 5mm front , the rear oppened pretty wide , and the sight radius shortened up as much as possible .

Chris

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:39 pm

Thats coming from an "old fart". Thats the pistol I tried, I didn't open it as much as his because I'm a strapping virile young man ;)

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:15 pm

Thanks, guys, for your thoughts.
Wish I was still young and virile!!!!!!!!!!! - watch it - your day will come when you are old!!!!!!!

With the C/F gun, at 25metrs, I can shoot a reasnable precision score - up to 280 on a good day. However the Air Pistol and Free pistol matches
are not matching the effort I am putting in, so I am getting a bit desperate! I am very competitive! I have been competing in various sports at a high level for the last 60 years, and it is very hard to accept
lower scores.

My wife uses the same gun, as originally set up. She does not complain, and can put in a reasonable socre every now and again!
We will see how she goes with the new configuration! She reckons the English can shoot better than a Hungarian ( guess where we both hail from!!!)

I will start practicing with the new set up, and see how I go.

Many thanks,
Alex L.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:19 pm

cdf wrote:Give the "old fart " sight setup a try , I use a 5mm front , the rear oppened pretty wide , and the sight radius shortened up as much as possible .

Chris

How does the shorter sight radius help?

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:20 pm

It gives less precieved movement.

bryan · Post by **bryan** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:23 pm

less noticable wobble. easier
wider the gap, less noticable wobble. easier

better hold, would mean smaller gap, greater sight radius. better group

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:24 pm

Richard H wrote:It gives less precieved movement.

Ok, so it's an alignment thing, rather than hold wobble

Gort · Post by **Gort** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:06 pm

Something I have noticed over the years. Arm length, the longer your arms, the wider the rear sight needs to be. Try holding the pistol 6 or 8 inches closer and see how wide the rear notch is. It is simple geometry really. I have long arms. 78 inches from fingertip to fingertip, many rear sights are narrow for me.
Gort

cdf · Post by **cdf** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:43 am

How old is the prescription on your shooting glasses ? As I understand it prescriptions are only good for a couple of years . BTW , at our club , prolly our best pistol shot is 72 , who relearned how to shoot left handed after a saw accident in his late 50s , second to him is a fella about 66-67 .

Richard H is a young pup , I'm 56 , and improving steadily , if slowly .

Sight radius is subject to diminishing returns , and magnifies percieved hand tremor . Shortening it up helps with a tendency to oversteer , and promotes more courageous shot release .

Screw the younguns , keep having fun ! Shooting staves off old age , hell I think I'm in my second childhood ! I may get so young I'll need diapers again .

Chris

JoeG · Post by **JoeG** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:19 pm

As inferred above, it still boils down to exposure and finding a personal preference. I most often use a wide front sight (5 - 5.5mm) and keep the rear adjusted fairly tight. I find it gives me a quicker acquisition, if I see light on both sides it is centered, a little off left or right and I lose the light on one side. I also experimented with shortening the sight radius and found it did cut down on the perceived wobble. I have since gone back to the longer sight radius with the front sight all the way forward by the muzzle. Sometimes you have to change to compensate for other external factors. Lately a slight shoulder injury (temporary, I hope) has me using one of my lighter air pistols which I find easier to hold on target than my main shooter. Enjoy the journey.

shadow · Post by **shadow** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:48 pm

I am farsighted. My eyes tire before the air pistol match is over. The space on each side of the front sight starts to blur. A wider rear sight - allowing more light on each side of the front sight - seems to minimize this.

Tom Amlie · Post by **Tom Amlie** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:31 pm

My opinion & personal preferences, for what they're worth....

First off, I would be taken aback a little bit if someone simply pronounced that my sight set-up was "wrong". It's a matter of hold stability, eyesight, and personal preference. If there were a "one-size-fits-all" solution then there wouldn't be interchangable front sights, or adjustable rear sights and sight radii.

That said, I lean towards a narrower (for AP) front sight and a relatively tight rear sight, with the longest possible sight radius.

Being on the far side of 45, I can get a reasonable focus on the front sight but not on the rear. This means the band of light on either side of the post is a little fuzzy. For this reason, I find that a relatively narrow rear sight helps me to better assess horizontal sight alignment. Too wide, and I can't readily judge the equality of the "fuzzy bands". Too tight and I lose vertical control (too many flyers at 12 o'clock). Similarly, since there's some "fuzz" in my sight picture I don't suffer bad effects from a long sight radius. I try a +0.50 diopter lens in shooting glasses occasionally, and the sudden clarity of the horizontal alignment, accompanied by the long sight radius, really shakes my confidence. If I had 20 year old eyes I'd probably go for a shorter sight radius. Given my vision, I don't "see" the shakiness usually revealed by a longer radius, yet I do believe I benefit from the additional precision afforded by the longer sight radius.

Fow what it's worth....

Tom A.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:26 am

Tom Amlie wrote: I try a +0.50 diopter lens in shooting glasses occasionally, and the sudden clarity of the horizontal alignment, accompanied by the long sight radius, really shakes my confidence. If I had 20 year old eyes I'd probably go for a shorter sight radius. Given my vision, I don't "see" the shakiness usually revealed by a longer radius, yet I do believe I benefit from the additional precision afforded by the longer sight radius.

Tom,
You might try adding some weight at the muzzle as a way of reducing the perceived shakiness occasioned by a long sight radius. At one time I found that what I thought was out of focus fuzziness, was really a high frequency shake.

Fred

hb10mshoter · Post by **hb10mshoter** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:27 am

I shoot a izh 46m and was wondering if there is an easy way to shorten the sight radius. When i shoot my CO2 plinker which has a 3.5'' sight radius, it seems there is no movement. I put a nice walter red dot on that walther plinker and it shoots pretty good.

thanks

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:43 pm

Thank you all for your replies. What a wide variety of answers, and problems related to this topic!

However I am well over 70, but on a good day I can shoot 530+, - my bad days are not mentioned!!!! :))

Interestingly - I also changed the rear sight on my Free Pistol, at the weekend,, and it showed up the front sight much more clearly. It did not stop the body rotations, but I found most of the shots landed at 9 o'clock on the left - at 50m. This shows that maybe I am not watching the front sight as well as I should be, and also the Hammerli has a stupid grip.

I am going to have the first training today, with the new sight arrangement on the air Pistol. I do not expect an immediate improvement, but I am going to work as hard as I can, and think Positive.
My shooting glasses are good, so that part is OK.
I will let you know how I go!

Many thanks,
Alex L.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:34 am

Stay with that Positive Attitude!

Just a thought - I will be 70 in a month and now find it easier to shoot with lighter pistols (my joints are not all that good). My AP weighs 1000gm, as does my FP.

JoeG · Post by **JoeG** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:22 pm

A bit ahead of time. I look forward to catching you at one of the AP matches soon, would love to check out the FWB P44 you got. Best regards, Joe G.

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:55 am

Well, I had a go with the new sight arrangement - but did not like it.
However, I put the front sight back to it's normal place, and closed the rear sight a little bit - to 3.9. This is still wider than I used to have it.

I then shot around the 89/90 per 10 shot card. I put in about 60 shots.
Obviously I am too stubborn to accept a different arrangement!!! :)
I am not giving up, and I am looking positively that I am going to get back to 90+s!!

Tomorrow I will shoot a 50m Free Pistol match, with a wider rear sight on that pistol, too, and we will see what happens!! I am considering putting a weight on the front of the Hammerli 104.

I will let you know how I go!
Alex L.

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