Grip Creep

Elmas · Post by **Elmas** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:30 pm

My AP Tesro PA 10 , has a ball-joint type grip adjustment screw.

This allows for both rake and cant adjustments ... Very useful to 'hand tailor' each pistol to an individual shooter...

Problem is , when the screw is not tightened enough ... with time and handling of the pistol , the grip adjustment shifts a little ... imperceptibly at first , causing subconscious hold corrections.. that deteriorate as one tires and affects scores .

I am now very aware of this problem, and make sure that I come up correctly with my sights aligned each time . Testing the grip for any "play".

I know that many pistols now have this universal joint grip adjustment feature ... Has anyone had a similar problem ?

Elmas

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Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:33 pm

On my Steyr, I have found that even when the grip screw is well tightened the frame can move within the grip if I put enough force on it. For example, if I attempt to remove a tight CA cylinder by holding the grip in my right hand and unscrewing the cylinder with my left hand, the frame may shift in the grip. I now always unscrew the cylinder by holding the frame in one hand and the cylinder in the other. With the grip screw properly snugged up I have not had any further problems since.

I am not familiar with the Tesro. Does the frame/adjusting screws sit directly on the wood, or is there a piece of sheet metal in between to spread the load, like the Steyr?

Fred

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:40 pm

Fred its like a gimble joint (ball joint free to move in all directions) same as the Walther I believe.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:49 am

i believe what you need is loctite or something similar that will prevent the screw from loosening.

Elmas · Post by **Elmas** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:02 am

Anonymous wrote:i believe what you need is loctite or something similar that will prevent the screw from loosening.

I don't know if Loctite will work, Its not a matter of the screw not being tight enough.... rather , the difficulty of keeping such a 'gimble' joint in position.

I think the solution would be 'awareness' of the tendency of this type of ball joint to creep off position... and like Fred Mannis says ; just make sure you are not doing anything that contributes to a shift in pistol/grip angle as you handle the pistol or unscrew the cylinder .

Elmas

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RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:42 am

Sounds like a poor design 'feature' to me. The last thing you want to happen (or worry about) is the grip moving. My LP10 is steady as a rock, but then I have the inner screws set so as to slightly offset the grip and perhaps that enables a tighter 'fix' of the gun in the grip.

Rob.

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:46 am

All you need to do is pick a few landmarks and take a small machinist scale and take a couple of measurements.

Elmas · Post by **Elmas** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:59 am

RobStubbs wrote:Sounds like a poor design 'feature' to me. The last thing you want to happen (or worry about) is the grip moving. My LP10 is steady as a rock, but then I have the inner screws set so as to slightly offset the grip and perhaps that enables a tighter 'fix' of the gun in the grip.

Rob.

I dont think that the Universal Ball Joint type of grip screw is a poor design feature... I think its an ingenious means of satisfying the varied preferences of shooters. Those who prefer the 'dropped wrist' position a la Free Pistol and those who prefer a more 'upright' grip to emulate their Gold Cups and Model 41's . then there are those who need to correct a natural 'cant ' to their hold by making it possible for them to keep their sights level...
The downside of course is that it is not " rock steady" like the fixed grip pistols.

There must be plenty of ways to fix this potential problem...my choice happens to be " being careful with handling' and checking occasionally for a shift.

I am sure the LP10 is certainly the current " Champions Choice " . Here in Egypt most competitors in National and International venues shoot LP10's and Morinis .. with a smattering of FWB's ( FWB's have always been popular here ).

cdf · Post by **cdf** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:55 pm

Dude , witness marks are your friend . Even a silver Sharpie will do it ( removeable with solvent ) . Make em permenent when you are satisfied with them . I use a bunch of them when setting up my Styer rifle .

Chris

Mark Briggs · Post by **Mark Briggs** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:48 pm

Elmas - I completely understand your situation as I've witnessed the same thing happening with my Walther. Because the grip is inletted with lots of space to allow the range of adjustment we all like the use of witness marks is not likely to produce the desired result. Loctite is almost certainly not going to produce the desired result.

What I've found to work is to make wooden shims which, when fitted between the inletted portion of the grip and the pistol's frame, hold the grip in the proper position (I've used small wedge-shaped pieces of wood). These are easy to make, and just a small dab of glue will hold them in place. You can then remove the grip and put it back on the gun and it will always go back to the same position. The only problem is you have to be careful to ensure you don't knock a shim off when you install the grip on the pistol.

Elmas · Post by **Elmas** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:44 am

Mark Briggs wrote:Elmas - I completely understand your situation as I've witnessed the same thing happening with my Walther. Because the grip is inletted with lots of space to allow the range of adjustment we all like the use of witness marks is not likely to produce the desired result. Loctite is almost certainly not going to produce the desired result.

What I've found to work is to make wooden shims which, when fitted between the inletted portion of the grip and the pistol's frame, hold the grip in the proper position (I've used small wedge-shaped pieces of wood). These are easy to make, and just a small dab of glue will hold them in place. You can then remove the grip and put it back on the gun and it will always go back to the same position. The only problem is you have to be careful to ensure you don't knock a shim off when you install the grip on the pistol.

Thank you for this helpful posting. I intend to follow your advice .

As I do not intend to sell off my pistol in the forseable future , I thought of filling the space between the gun body and grip with plastic wood ! (( making sure it doesnt impede the travel of the cocking lever which is partially covered by the grip .
Plastic wood once it sets , will offer a more or less permanent solution to the problem of grip shift or " creep " as I originally described it.
But glued on wood shims seem more appropriate and will do away with the free play space that is root of the problem just as effectively .

Elmas

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