Turning targets

[Richard H]

Thers is now way to tell what shot was the last shot, I would think comons sense would apply and you'd drop the highest shot just as in malfunction series in standard pistol. The person who shot the late shot can't benefit from his action so why would you drop the lowest shot?

[tleddy]

I think that the only real point of contention would be in RF. My recollection is that there are two 5 shot strings followed by scoring. That means that there would be two hits on each rapid fire target...the issue then is which one to discount.

On the other hand, if a late shot was identified in the ten or 20 second string of Standard Pistol, there would be five hits and the shooter would lose the highest value hit.

Please give me the location of the air pistol rapid fire rules.

Tilllman

[David Levene]

I think that the only real point of contention would be in RF. My recollection is that there are two 5 shot strings followed by scoring. That means that there would be two hits on each rapid fire target...the issue then is which one to discount.

Rule 8.15 is quite specific that scoring and patching of paper targets for the 25m events is done after every 5 shot series. The rules do not allow 2 regular (i.e. non-malfunction) series before scoring so make no provision for how to score them.

[Ed Hall]

Edd if you are still interested in updating your circuit I can put your code on a pic chip for you.

Thanks Peter,

I'm set with programming, but was thinking of others when I add the controller to my do-it-yourself items (which actually may still be awhile). Someone who wants to build one will need to program the chip. I will include the PC board layout and .asm code with parts list, so others can construct the unit, but they will need to put the code in their chip.

To Others,

The events I'm referring to are obviously not ISSF approved events, but rather fall under another banner and are usually fired on small ranges where at most two competitors can fire at once. For reasons of time constraints, targets are scored after ten shots. This was fine with the turning targets of past years, but the move to use lights has added the issues with scoring and is probably why the rules state that without electronic scoring, the range "...must be equipped with a target rotating or turning mechanism."

I've offered the idea of scoping the last target of the first string to identify the hit location prior to firing the second string, but it, or similar, has not been implemented as far as I know. Perhaps this year...

I can see this being a bigger issue in the single target events like Standard or Sport Pistol. How would you, "fairly to all," determine which shot was the late one after five? You would need to be watching all the targets. What a manpower nightmare! Another reason to have EITHER electronic scoring with lights OR a turning system.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

[Guest]

Does anyone on the list know of an inexpensive system for International rapid fire target turners for home use? I am thinking of a 1/2 or 1/4 size.

Tillman

If you're just practicing, why don't you just get an audible shot timer that allows you to set par times for $100 (maybe less) and practice with that? You could even practice with the par times set a little shorter.

I don't understand this obsession with trying to follow every single rule dogmatically, especially in practice or at local matches. I've heard people on here actually refuse to practice or hold a local match because they insist the world will come to an end if they don't have turning targets.
It's as if people are more interested in reading rules than shooting.
No wonder why you see so few Rapid Fire events in the U.S.

[David Levene]

The events I'm referring to are obviously not ISSF approved events, but rather fall under another banner and are usually fired on small ranges where at most two competitors can fire at once. For reasons of time constraints, targets are scored after ten shots.

Ed, it sounds like you are talking about the scenario played out at thousands of shooting clubs worldwide. A few shooters get together and want to shoot competitively.

If the match is otherwise run as closely as possible to ISSF rules, or any other rules, does it really matter if the scoring rules in the event of a late shot are slightly different to the norm. Let everyone know what the procedure will be and then get on with it and enjoy the shooting. It'll be the same for everyone and they will all know what to expect.

Every once in a while organise organise a "full rules" match and draft in a few extra helpers to score/ patch every series.

[tleddy]

This is for Guest...

My concern about turning targets and their use is about a project I am doing at the moment. It will be a dry fire emulation of the various disciplines that will allow tv/computer simulation for home practice.

I have been a competitor in both NRA and ISSF for many years and am always looking for ways to both improve my scores and to help others do the same. My major past contribution to the shooting sports was the ClearsighT with interchangeable diopter lenses. It was an inexpensive alternative to Nobloch or other frame/les combinations of that type.

Anyhow - I am going to make the simulation as accurate as possible, so that is the reason for my "obsession". Besides, my friend Barb says I have A2D2 and OCD as well. :-)

Tillman in Florida

[RobStubbs]

This is for Guest...

My concern about turning targets and their use is about a project I am doing at the moment. It will be a dry fire emulation of the various disciplines that will allow tv/computer simulation for home practice.

I believe Scott came up with a powerpoint presentation last year to be used for centrefire duelling. So that's an obvious 'tool' to consider.

Rob.

[Guest]

Eggsackly David, Target Timers makes an AP RF target system with red & green lights. With the change to lights why bother with moving targets?---I am sure that a light system whether by electronics or manual is a heck of a lot easier to build. Let's get an electronics genius out there to stick his head into it---it isn't rocket science after all.

Bob, When I first contacted Hans Kolpin at Target Timers in 1999, all his timing units were designed to be used with turning targets. I asked him if they would work using the red and green lights, as I'd seen at Wolf Creek. He answered in the affirmative, and hand drew me a schematic for the light setup. The control console on my unit, which has voice and both NRA and ISU timing, still has the Edge-Face switch, which would conform to the red-green lights.

I didn't know he was making this as a standard item, but I'm sure the controller still works with turning targets.

Paul

[pgfaini]

The above post regarding Hans Kolpin at Target Timers was posted by me. I didn't know when I had to type in a security code, that I'd come up as a "Guest", or I would have logged in. This is the first time this has happened, and I just assumed Scott had added extra security.
Paul

[pgfaini]

Regarding the lights themselves, The lamps I'm using, are GE PAR 20 50w halogen narrow floodlights, (they're a little over 2" in dia.), behind plastic 4" truck tail light lenses, mounted in PVC pipe. The lamps are mounted in regular outdoor floodlight fixtures, pointing down the short piece of 4" PVC holding the tail light lenses. These are mounted on a board frame which surrounds my 25yd. target backstop. I found the tail light lenses at a truck stop on the interstate, and they come in both red and green. The lights are bright enough to be clearly visible in bright sunlight. They're connected to the controller using a regular #16 drop cord, with the ground conductor as the common. I plug the target (red/green) light cord into the drop cord, and the drop cord into the control box(with the relay), at the firing point, which plugs into the console and the AC recepticle.
Hope this is of some help to those wanting to use a light setup.

Paul