Dear Forum,
I just acquired a FWB 700 (universal) but many people in the club are telling me that the ANS 8002 is a much better rifle. Others exaggerate to the point of saying that the ANS is more accurate (consistent) and tell me that it has more winning records.
Can somebody please advice me on which of these two top rifles is better for 10m? Pros and cons of each model?
I have no problem in buying the ANS if this is the case, I need a FT rifle and will either modify my current 700 and buy another FWB 700 for 10m or buy the ANS 8002 if this rifle is better.
I know that we are splitting hairs but I am just starting with air rifle competition and don't have the expertise…
Please advice on these two brands only.
Best Regards,
azuaro
FWB MODEL 700 or ANSCHUTZ MOD 8002 ?
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Which air rifle
Hi
In the book, Ways of the Rifle, it is suggested that you chose a rifle on how it feels, how the grip feels, how easy it is to load. A good dealer will let you try out this in the shop or even on the shop range (if they have one) Some may feel nicer to hold than others!! Some are easier to adjust than others.
All the top makes will out shoot you so it really is down to which one you like the feel of.
The FWB 700 universal is a wooden stock version of the Ali 700 and i have heard of some top shooters around the world going back to wood after not liking the aluminium stocks.
The FWB 700 broke many records over time including the Athens olympics.
The Steyr LG110 though currently holds the world record.
As i said, they will all give you superb performance.
Each has its own way of doing things but the bottom line is, they will all out shoot you.
Peepsight
In the book, Ways of the Rifle, it is suggested that you chose a rifle on how it feels, how the grip feels, how easy it is to load. A good dealer will let you try out this in the shop or even on the shop range (if they have one) Some may feel nicer to hold than others!! Some are easier to adjust than others.
All the top makes will out shoot you so it really is down to which one you like the feel of.
The FWB 700 universal is a wooden stock version of the Ali 700 and i have heard of some top shooters around the world going back to wood after not liking the aluminium stocks.
The FWB 700 broke many records over time including the Athens olympics.
The Steyr LG110 though currently holds the world record.
As i said, they will all give you superb performance.
Each has its own way of doing things but the bottom line is, they will all out shoot you.
Peepsight
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Thank you all for your kind responses....
No, I don't think anyone can shoot better than any of these rifles....I have never been arrogant and shooting better than the capabilities of these rifles never crossed my mind…
My question is more about the reliability, the overall long term experience, the maintenance and parts availability, the gun with the latest technology proven to be an improvement, the one with better balance and easiest to adjust, etc.
Yes, there are a few ANS and FWB rifles among fellow members but none will allow me to adjust their rifle so I can shot to the best of my capabilities...Mostly anyone will let you shoot a few rounds with their gun but it is hard to make a judgment based on somebody else's rifle, pellets and wrong adjustments...
Somebody lending me a rifle for several days is out of the question and I can understand why...
I currently own a FWB 700 Universal and like it very much but I don’t have the overall experience or the base for comparing it with other top of the line brands. I have never owned any other competition air gun…
I will buy another rifle, I need one for FT (will modify rifle) and the other will be strictly used for 10m as I stated in my posting.
This model 700 is my first competition pellet gun…I previously shot informal FT with a cheap (very accurate though) Diana model 54 modified with a trigger made out of steel with bronze bushings and set at 14 oz vs. original plastic trigger set at 4 pounds. Here is where I started to like the precision of Airguns and decided to get a little more serious about it...
I have not seen the ANS 9003, I understand that it is more expensive than the FWB 700 universal, I am being told that this is an aluminum stocked rifle; I am trying to stay with laminated wood...
Unfortunately there are no dealers around (3 - 400 miles) who have these guns in stock...
I believe that if a particular brand and model of rifle is used by many shooters and over a long period of time this gun has the most wins consistently , this fact is telling me that the gun may be the best overall out there...But I could be wrong.
Regards,
azuaro
No, I don't think anyone can shoot better than any of these rifles....I have never been arrogant and shooting better than the capabilities of these rifles never crossed my mind…
My question is more about the reliability, the overall long term experience, the maintenance and parts availability, the gun with the latest technology proven to be an improvement, the one with better balance and easiest to adjust, etc.
Yes, there are a few ANS and FWB rifles among fellow members but none will allow me to adjust their rifle so I can shot to the best of my capabilities...Mostly anyone will let you shoot a few rounds with their gun but it is hard to make a judgment based on somebody else's rifle, pellets and wrong adjustments...
Somebody lending me a rifle for several days is out of the question and I can understand why...
I currently own a FWB 700 Universal and like it very much but I don’t have the overall experience or the base for comparing it with other top of the line brands. I have never owned any other competition air gun…
I will buy another rifle, I need one for FT (will modify rifle) and the other will be strictly used for 10m as I stated in my posting.
This model 700 is my first competition pellet gun…I previously shot informal FT with a cheap (very accurate though) Diana model 54 modified with a trigger made out of steel with bronze bushings and set at 14 oz vs. original plastic trigger set at 4 pounds. Here is where I started to like the precision of Airguns and decided to get a little more serious about it...
I have not seen the ANS 9003, I understand that it is more expensive than the FWB 700 universal, I am being told that this is an aluminum stocked rifle; I am trying to stay with laminated wood...
Unfortunately there are no dealers around (3 - 400 miles) who have these guns in stock...
I believe that if a particular brand and model of rifle is used by many shooters and over a long period of time this gun has the most wins consistently , this fact is telling me that the gun may be the best overall out there...But I could be wrong.
Regards,
azuaro
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B.T.Carstensen
- Posts: 185
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:15 pm
Your FWB 700 will out shoot you every day of the week, so will a ANS or a walther or a stery. I have a P700 I think it's a great gun, I have had no problems with it so far. It is just as good of gun as a ANS. I would have to say that 80% of shooters out there have a ANS or a FWB that should tell you something right there.The only thing that I would change about FWB would be the accessorys that you can get for it. With ANS you can get any thing you want for it. You really can't go wrong with a FWB,ANS,Walther or a Stery. (Not necessarily in that order) Hope this helps.
<>Brian<>
<>Brian<>
ANS 8002 Works For Me
I recently returned to competitive shooting after a 25-year break (long story). I started back in free rifle July of 2006 and purchased my first air rifle in October of 2006...I had never fired one in my life prior to that purchase. I bought the Anschutz 8002 that is offered through the Civilian Marksmanship Program. If I remember correctly the price was $1195 or so and it came with match sights. Three weeks ago, I won an NRA International Air Rifle Sectional with that rifle after only shooting air for 3 months. I will swear by it against all others even though I know the others are of the highest quality. In my opinion, it is the best rilfe for the price hands down (assuming you purchase through the CMP). Just my two cents.
I have a FWB 700 UNIVERSAL, it's also my first match grade rifle, and I am very happy with it. Like some said before you can't shoot better than those rifles, so it just comes to personal preference. I chose these model because i don't like the "space age" look of the aluminum stocks.
You can't go wrong with any of them.
My 2 cents.
You can't go wrong with any of them.
My 2 cents.
Thank you all for your inputs…
The concept that “Your rifle will out shoot you” or “Any of these guns will out shoot you” has never been part of my shooting philosophy…
I don’t compete against my rifle, I shoot teaming up with it, and the better we both shoot the better the output…
For competition, I wish I could get a rifle that would shoot .00 meaning ABSOLUTE PERFECTION… In reality, most of these top guns shoot anywhere between .03 and .06 ctc. even though there are rifles within the same brands and models that just shoot better than others for no apparent reason.
Out shooting is not what I am asking in this topic, I am asking about ACCURACY close to perfection, about BALANCE, about OVERALL RELIABILITY and DEPENDABILITY, about MAINTENANCE, etc.
I currently have a brand new FWB 700 Universal, I know the balance, the feel, the accuracy, etc. of this particular brand and model, but I want to know how it compares to the other top of the line rifles (Anschutz, Steyr 110, Walther, etc.). I will be buying another rifle and will modify it or buy it specifically for FT shooting (Any combination).
In a competition the difference between a 10 and a 9 could be the difference between 1st and 3rd place or worse…
A .01 can be the difference between a 10 and a 9 and this in most instances this can be the rifle's accuracy (.06 vs. .02 or .04) ….
So…THE MORE ACCURATE THE RIFLE THE BETTER!
Of course that pretty much any rifle including the $300 and 400 dollar cheap ones will out shoot you if by this you mean that the rifle by itself can shoot better than you can in a standing position.
As an example: I have a cheap RWS model 54 that shoots .07 groups at 10 meters with pretty much any kind of pellets, this same gun shoots 3/8”groups at 50 yards with Premier 10.5 g pellets. This is by no means a competition gun; it is a field rifle that shoots 7.5 gr. pellets at 1,100 + fps and the 10.5 gr. ones at 1,020 (at the muzzle).
All I modified to this RWS model 54 was to install a new trigger that I fabricated (metal one vs. plastic) and tuned it for 8 oz. just for plinking and shooting pests…
Nevertheless, a consistent .07 ctc group is way off the accuracy needed for serious competition at 10 meters if we add my shooting error. But again, even a cheap rifle can out shoot you!
Best Regards and thank you for your replies…
azuaro
The concept that “Your rifle will out shoot you” or “Any of these guns will out shoot you” has never been part of my shooting philosophy…
I don’t compete against my rifle, I shoot teaming up with it, and the better we both shoot the better the output…
For competition, I wish I could get a rifle that would shoot .00 meaning ABSOLUTE PERFECTION… In reality, most of these top guns shoot anywhere between .03 and .06 ctc. even though there are rifles within the same brands and models that just shoot better than others for no apparent reason.
Out shooting is not what I am asking in this topic, I am asking about ACCURACY close to perfection, about BALANCE, about OVERALL RELIABILITY and DEPENDABILITY, about MAINTENANCE, etc.
I currently have a brand new FWB 700 Universal, I know the balance, the feel, the accuracy, etc. of this particular brand and model, but I want to know how it compares to the other top of the line rifles (Anschutz, Steyr 110, Walther, etc.). I will be buying another rifle and will modify it or buy it specifically for FT shooting (Any combination).
In a competition the difference between a 10 and a 9 could be the difference between 1st and 3rd place or worse…
A .01 can be the difference between a 10 and a 9 and this in most instances this can be the rifle's accuracy (.06 vs. .02 or .04) ….
So…THE MORE ACCURATE THE RIFLE THE BETTER!
Of course that pretty much any rifle including the $300 and 400 dollar cheap ones will out shoot you if by this you mean that the rifle by itself can shoot better than you can in a standing position.
As an example: I have a cheap RWS model 54 that shoots .07 groups at 10 meters with pretty much any kind of pellets, this same gun shoots 3/8”groups at 50 yards with Premier 10.5 g pellets. This is by no means a competition gun; it is a field rifle that shoots 7.5 gr. pellets at 1,100 + fps and the 10.5 gr. ones at 1,020 (at the muzzle).
All I modified to this RWS model 54 was to install a new trigger that I fabricated (metal one vs. plastic) and tuned it for 8 oz. just for plinking and shooting pests…
Nevertheless, a consistent .07 ctc group is way off the accuracy needed for serious competition at 10 meters if we add my shooting error. But again, even a cheap rifle can out shoot you!
Best Regards and thank you for your replies…
azuaro
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B.T.Carstensen
- Posts: 185
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:15 pm
ACCURACY: Your rifle will shoot ABSOLUTE PERFECTION every time unless there is something mechanically wrong with it. I suggest that you look at your test taget that should of come with your rifle and compare the test taget of ANS. But I can tell you what you'll find, You can't put more then one pellets through the hole right. An ANS is no more accurate then a FWB.
BALANCE: is all about what you want, personal preference. You will have to hold another rifle to see if you like the balance better.
RELIABILITY and DEPENDABILITY: I have had my P700 for 9 months shooting almost a tin of pellets a week for the better part of that time and the only probelm that I have had is the bolt gets dry and I have to put some oil on it. You'll have to ask someone with a ANS about it but I would imagineit's about the same.
MAINTENANCE: Most of the time the only maintenance you will have to do it wipe the rifle down with a soft cloth just to get some of the skin oils off and you will need to clean it sometimes, and get it serviced about every two years, thats about it.
SUMMARY: It comes down to personal preference, thats all I can say.
<>Brian<>
P.S. If you are still not satisfied call up Tod at 10 ring service (A Factory trained gunsmith for ANS and FWB) and ask him what he thinks. He is the one that recommended me to get a ANS smallbore rifle instead of the FWB just because of the over travel on the FWB trigger.
BALANCE: is all about what you want, personal preference. You will have to hold another rifle to see if you like the balance better.
RELIABILITY and DEPENDABILITY: I have had my P700 for 9 months shooting almost a tin of pellets a week for the better part of that time and the only probelm that I have had is the bolt gets dry and I have to put some oil on it. You'll have to ask someone with a ANS about it but I would imagineit's about the same.
MAINTENANCE: Most of the time the only maintenance you will have to do it wipe the rifle down with a soft cloth just to get some of the skin oils off and you will need to clean it sometimes, and get it serviced about every two years, thats about it.
SUMMARY: It comes down to personal preference, thats all I can say.
<>Brian<>
P.S. If you are still not satisfied call up Tod at 10 ring service (A Factory trained gunsmith for ANS and FWB) and ask him what he thinks. He is the one that recommended me to get a ANS smallbore rifle instead of the FWB just because of the over travel on the FWB trigger.
Last edited by B.T.Carstensen on Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Keep a diary and record each shooting session. Analyze any problems you are fighting, such as trigger position, cheek rest, sights, etc. Until I started writing it down I was fighting a jacket that did not fit properly in one shoulder for a whole season. Find the areas that your gun is not 100% comfortable or performing, etc then set a plan to correct it. Possibly you already have the best rifle for you. Find the bad stuff quick and fix it or your progress will be limited.
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Guest
Thank you all for your help and tips....
I acquired another FWB 700, I will keep my 700 Universal for 10 m, and I will modify the new Basic model for FT shooting.
I bought the 700 Basic because you can not beat the good price and because I will be making a custom FT stock anyway so why pay the extra $1,000 for a Universal stock that I will not use....The rest of the components (mechanical) are identical and interchangeable in both models.
I stuck to FWB just for convenience of parts, unfortunately I tried the Anschutz at the club, but I did not shot it enough for any serious evaluation...I liked it much though...
Best Regards and thank you once again,
Azuaro
I acquired another FWB 700, I will keep my 700 Universal for 10 m, and I will modify the new Basic model for FT shooting.
I bought the 700 Basic because you can not beat the good price and because I will be making a custom FT stock anyway so why pay the extra $1,000 for a Universal stock that I will not use....The rest of the components (mechanical) are identical and interchangeable in both models.
I stuck to FWB just for convenience of parts, unfortunately I tried the Anschutz at the club, but I did not shot it enough for any serious evaluation...I liked it much though...
Best Regards and thank you once again,
Azuaro
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Martin
Be wary of choosing any rifle on looks - instead choose on performance and "feel". If it fits you better, or is better adjustable over the range that you require, or you prefer the balance, pick it. The fact that it comes in walnut, maple, or aluminium is irrelevant...BOOKER wrote:I chose these model because i don't like the "space age" look of the aluminum stocks.
...unless it's a choice between cast and machined aluminium; go for machined, every time. I've seen too many cast Al stocks that had broken.