Use of Pardini SP 1 for BE?
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Use of Pardini SP 1 for BE?
In a recent discussion on Bullseye-L, a participant quoted Larry Carter as saying that he did not recommend the new Pardini SP with electronic trigger for Bullseye competition. The trigger was designed for RF only and in the hands of an inexperienced BE shooter the gun could double if not promptly released. Has anyone experienced this problem?
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SP1 test pilot (retired.)
This sounds like more of an operator error than a problem with the pistol. If the shooter is not releasing the trigger between shots, that's a technique problem.
This is not much different than a new shooter who fires one shot and then swears the pistol malfunctions. Closer examination reveals that the shooter is not releasing the trigger between shots.
If the pistol is set up too fine (too little movement required to re-set the trigger), I can see where a very slight finger movement would re-set it and another wiggle would cause it to fire again. The solution to that is simple. Change the set-up.
Another issue is the shooter being accustomed to pressing a heavy trigger and then dropping down to a lesser weight.
Stan
This is not much different than a new shooter who fires one shot and then swears the pistol malfunctions. Closer examination reveals that the shooter is not releasing the trigger between shots.
If the pistol is set up too fine (too little movement required to re-set the trigger), I can see where a very slight finger movement would re-set it and another wiggle would cause it to fire again. The solution to that is simple. Change the set-up.
Another issue is the shooter being accustomed to pressing a heavy trigger and then dropping down to a lesser weight.
Stan
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Guest
Not with Pardini Electronic. In fact Ive seen them where you get a shot when you pull the trigger than another shot as you release the trigger. A difucult technique to master but potentially a fast way to get through a 4 second series!This sounds like more of an operator error than a problem with the pistol. If the shooter is not releasing the trigger between shots, that's a technique problem.
Stan,
I am one of the "new shooters" that Mr. Carter believes is causing the doubles and triples because of improper technique with the Pardini RF.
A few notes and opinions on the pistol for your edification and delight:
I have had the pistol for about one year now. I bought it new, and I have always fired the gun as it arrived set up from the factory. The first 500 rounds were uneventful. Drama soon arrived, most notably during trails at Benning.
The doubles and triples began occuring more and more frequently, to the point where it was rare to get through a magazine without incident. I tried every brand of ammo and numerous other shooters, all with the same results. Recovered cases showed a clear firing pin impact, not a slam fire. Even deliberately mashing and holding the trigger to the rear could produce multiple discharges.
Mr. Carter has made two separate trigger adjustments, the second of which was last month, which at first blush has corrected the problem.
You are aware of my background, and with 20 years at this game, I would not consider myself completely unskilled behind a trigger. Perhaps the doubles were caused by poor technique. If so, it was consistently poor technique from multiple shooters, including some world class guys. If the gun was acting properly, I'm not sure why Pardini would design and build a gun that is almost impossible to use correctly by the target audience.
From an engineering standpoint, the solution should be simple: use a delaying mechanism such as a capacitor to shut down the firing circuit for a few hundreths of a second to allow the recoil vibrations to subside before arming the firing pin for the next shot.
Despite these irritations, the electronic version clearly has the edge over the mechanical twin from a seat of the pants perspective. Now to just get the bugs worked out...
The story has many other convolutions, and hopefully I'll see you next month at the match to fill you in.
Keith
I am one of the "new shooters" that Mr. Carter believes is causing the doubles and triples because of improper technique with the Pardini RF.
A few notes and opinions on the pistol for your edification and delight:
I have had the pistol for about one year now. I bought it new, and I have always fired the gun as it arrived set up from the factory. The first 500 rounds were uneventful. Drama soon arrived, most notably during trails at Benning.
The doubles and triples began occuring more and more frequently, to the point where it was rare to get through a magazine without incident. I tried every brand of ammo and numerous other shooters, all with the same results. Recovered cases showed a clear firing pin impact, not a slam fire. Even deliberately mashing and holding the trigger to the rear could produce multiple discharges.
Mr. Carter has made two separate trigger adjustments, the second of which was last month, which at first blush has corrected the problem.
You are aware of my background, and with 20 years at this game, I would not consider myself completely unskilled behind a trigger. Perhaps the doubles were caused by poor technique. If so, it was consistently poor technique from multiple shooters, including some world class guys. If the gun was acting properly, I'm not sure why Pardini would design and build a gun that is almost impossible to use correctly by the target audience.
From an engineering standpoint, the solution should be simple: use a delaying mechanism such as a capacitor to shut down the firing circuit for a few hundreths of a second to allow the recoil vibrations to subside before arming the firing pin for the next shot.
Despite these irritations, the electronic version clearly has the edge over the mechanical twin from a seat of the pants perspective. Now to just get the bugs worked out...
The story has many other convolutions, and hopefully I'll see you next month at the match to fill you in.
Keith
Keith,
I was hoping we would hear from you on this topic, and I look forward to hearing all the details at the match.
When it first became available, I made an inquiry to the Pardini factory about how the trigger on the SP1 could be set up. Here's their response:
"It is also possible to set the pistol for a single-stage and very short movement but, if it is too close to the switch, there is the risk of double fire."
They did not specify exactly what constitutes "too close". I suppose some trial-and-error with various settings might be in order.
Stan
I was hoping we would hear from you on this topic, and I look forward to hearing all the details at the match.
When it first became available, I made an inquiry to the Pardini factory about how the trigger on the SP1 could be set up. Here's their response:
"It is also possible to set the pistol for a single-stage and very short movement but, if it is too close to the switch, there is the risk of double fire."
They did not specify exactly what constitutes "too close". I suppose some trial-and-error with various settings might be in order.
Stan
Stan,
While I agree that the trigger set up may be an issue for some shooters, I shot the gun as shipped from the factory. In addition, the pistol functioned fine for over 500 rounds, and then the performance began to degrade rapidly.
Whether that means something in the trigger setup shifted, or a short developed in the electronics I can't say. Either way, I think a small delay integrated into the firing mechanism might prevent most, if not all, of the issues that have developed whether shooter induced or an engineering fault.
Keith
While I agree that the trigger set up may be an issue for some shooters, I shot the gun as shipped from the factory. In addition, the pistol functioned fine for over 500 rounds, and then the performance began to degrade rapidly.
Whether that means something in the trigger setup shifted, or a short developed in the electronics I can't say. Either way, I think a small delay integrated into the firing mechanism might prevent most, if not all, of the issues that have developed whether shooter induced or an engineering fault.
Keith
Use of Pardini SP 1 for BE?
Dear,
Tycho, Fred and K5Tangos,
With regard to the Pardini and Electronic Trigger - just some thoughts.
The "doubling" or multiple shots from the SP1, in my case have not been pardini or operator error.
Just a lack of adjustment and cleanliness.
Exactly as Pardini say when the adjustment are too fine (close) seems to mean the adjustment of the trigger stop mechanism. When this is set "too fine" then rubbish usually from burnt powder or unburnt powder residue gets into the triger mechanism and further shortens the travel after the shot causing the "doubling".
I am convinced that if the mechanism is clean and the trigger stop set to allow some movement after the realease that the "doubling" effect will disappear.
Just my two cents worth.
macca
Tycho, Fred and K5Tangos,
With regard to the Pardini and Electronic Trigger - just some thoughts.
The "doubling" or multiple shots from the SP1, in my case have not been pardini or operator error.
Just a lack of adjustment and cleanliness.
Exactly as Pardini say when the adjustment are too fine (close) seems to mean the adjustment of the trigger stop mechanism. When this is set "too fine" then rubbish usually from burnt powder or unburnt powder residue gets into the triger mechanism and further shortens the travel after the shot causing the "doubling".
I am convinced that if the mechanism is clean and the trigger stop set to allow some movement after the realease that the "doubling" effect will disappear.
Just my two cents worth.
macca